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    Canonfire :: View topic - Fringe Cultures of the Flanaess Step Forward...
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    Fringe Cultures of the Flanaess Step Forward...
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
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    Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:00 pm  
    Fringe Cultures of the Flanaess Step Forward...

    I have recently been composing a list of regional feats for the Flanaess. I liked this idea when I saw it in the very-well put together FR Setting book (for ed 3.5) and then a friend showed me a link to a list of regional feats already put together which I liked.

    As I have been making my own tweaks and changes my research highlighted a number of very minor ethnic groups that had no country of their own but were found on the fringes of other regions or in forests and highlands. These new groups for me added a great sense of character and feel but I have little informaiton about them. I was hoping that some of you may be able to shed a little mor einformaiton on these groups for me;

    Tareg - inbred descendants of Suloise migrants who became trapped in the Bright Desert. They now roam the border of the NW Bright Desert and foothills of the Abbor-Alz to the south -west.

    Guryik - a Baklunish people dwelling on the western edges of the Land of Black Ice...is this tribe more closely related to the Ordai speaking Nomad tribes? I see them almost as either Inuits or a Finno-Urgric people perhaps in their appearance?

    Flan Tribes of Blackmoor - the natives of Blackmoor pushed into the bogs at the fringes of Blackmoor by Oeridian and Suloise settlers. Many took to fervently worshipping Wastri...I also see them as preserving the lost knowledge of the Northern Adepts perhaps?

    Uirtag - these folk apparently are Flan-savages dwelling in the Burneal forest in huts of green boughs in the summer and burrows in the winter

    Hillmen of the Cairn Hills - many of these folk are said to be trouble makers and bandits but not all...are they Flan hillfolk that have retreated furthe rinto the hills? The main produce of the Cairn hills are gems and wool...i dont imagine the dwarvs or gnomees provide the wool...are these hillmen flan goatherds or shepherds perhaps?

    Coltens Feodality - I've seen quite a few referrences to these Flan peoples but the information is sparse

    Hillsmen of the Flinty Hills - apparently 4000 human hillsmen who owe fealty to no-one dwell in these hills...who are these folk...yet more displaced Flan tribesmen?

    Cavefolk of the Crystal mists - Flan savages? Degenerate descendants of the Suel of Baklunish Empires? Any thoughts?

    Onnwal Headlanders - more autonomous Flan herdsmen who are apparently on good terms with the Iron League. These Headlanders ar eon good terms with the dwarves of the area.

    Marshmen of the Rushmoors - are these a distinct group of just Gran Marcher reed farmers perhaps?

    The Zeai (Sea Barbarians) - why have these Suel Barbarians been given the short straw and have no entry of their own? Are they just a loose collection of small tribes perhaps? I seem to remember that it is infact the Zeai who are the greatest sea masters.

    The Sea of Dust seems to have a few people living around its edges

    Hillmen of the Tusman Hills - renowned fighters and raiders who often act as mercenaries for surrounding countries. they are semi-autonomous

    The Yoradhi of Ull - these folk seem to be an Oeridian tribe who hate the people of Ull.


    So there are all these distinct groups and it seem sunfair to just lump them in with people of the nearest detailed countries as they seem to have rich cultures of their own...fif anyone has any more info on any of these I'd love to hear it!

    It also sounds from this that there are more pockets of almost pure-blooded Flan about than generally recognised...this starts painting a very different picture of the Flanaess for me...ooo its quite exciting!
    CF Admin

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    Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:42 pm  

    Wolfling, I recommend that you head over to http://www.harvestersheroes.com/cms2/index.php?name=PNphpBB2 and download a copy of Jason Zavoda's index, and start digging for additional research details :D

    Also, I've always thought that the Rhenne and Attloi would benefit from some cool regional feats (or perhaps racial feats?).
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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 16, 2003
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    From: Calgary, AB, Canada

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    Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:42 pm  
    Re: Fringe Cultures of the Flanaess Step Forward...

    Wolfling wrote:

    Marshmen of the Rushmoors - are these a distinct group of just Gran Marcher reed farmers perhaps?



    Wow, cool idea! And great list!

    Where the marshmen of the Rushmoors are concerned, I view them as Flan hunter/gatherers who retreated into the swamp once Vecna's empire crumbled and the Suloise/Oerids began to claim the territory that is now the Gran March. LG Gran March has written a little about them (and their relationship with the dominant populations of the March), which may or may not be useful to your project.

    I hope you'll publish your project on Canonfire once it's complete! Good luck!
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
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    Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:49 am  

    Thanks Grodog and TwiceBorn...

    I'm not sure if I can really make the full list public as it draws heavilly from someone else's material...if I can find out who and get there permission then I happily will share what I come up with...

    I see a possible two groups in the Rushmoors...a few small Flan groups that eek out a living in the moors as best they can, perhaps hunting and trapping marshlife to trade with the Gran March farmers who dwell along the edges of the marsh harvesting the rushes...I know that a lot of good work has been done of Gran March by some fellow Canonfirers so I will go check it out!
    Master Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:05 am  

    Quote:
    Tareg - inbred descendants of Suloise migrants who became trapped in the Bright Desert. They now roam the border of the NW Bright Desert and foothills of the Abbor-Alz to the south -west.


    These were mentioned in Rary the Traitor (and in the LG core module "The Traitor's Road"). I can't recall if the LGJ article on the Bright touched on them or not. They have a mesa-top fortress at a place called Ghazal (IIRC - reminds me of a more rough and ready version of those Greek Orthodox monestaries on top of sheer cliffs in northern Greece), close to the Hardby Pass and the trade route to Ul Bakak (which they periodically raid and extract "tolls" from passing merchants). They increasingly clash with the duergar of Father Eye, since the dark dwur have spread their influence in the Abbor-Alz of late.

    Quote:
    Guryik - a Baklunish people dwelling on the western edges of the Land of Black Ice...is this tribe more closely related to the Ordai speaking Nomad tribes? I see them almost as either Inuits or a Finno-Urgric people perhaps in their appearance?


    I think these made their first appearance in the LGG - though Wolfgang Bauer's Dungeon adventures may have mentioned or detailed them. At a guess, they were an offhoot of the Brazen Horde and thus would have been related to the Chakyik and Weigwur. Finno-Urgic or Samoyedic peoples seem like a good basis. You'd have to give them some distinct customs from the Uirtag and the Blackmoor Flan (again I think Wolfgang Baur based some adventures up in Balckmoor thatmay add some background to these).

    Cairn Hills Hillmen: Probably Flan originally, though they'd have mixed somewhat with the folk of the lowlands. They still likely retain a lot of Flan customs though.

    The Coltens aren't really dealt with in any detail except (I think) in Five Shall be One and Howl From the North (and even there, the info is patchy). Most of the info on them is in the LGG, I think. Essentially, they're Flannae cousins of the Rovers and the Tenhas and dwell in Stonehold and the tundra north of the Griffs. They used to trade and war with the more settled Tenhas to the south - though IIRC, they also paid homage to the duke, who had some title over them. When Stonehold was formed, the Cotens got overrun, suppressed and driven up onto the more northern tundra.

    Hillmen of the Flinties - probably do have some Flannish blood in them, but strongly mixed with Oerid through intermarriage, raiding etc. I guess the technical term would be acculturated - they'd have a mix of "civilised" lowlander customs and old Flannae traditions. The Tale of Old City (first Gord novel) has Gord fighting a duel with a Flinty Hillman. They'd have a love-hate relationship with the Nyrondese, I'd reckon - serving as mercenaries, soldiers and scouts in the Royal Armies and siding with them against the humanoids of the Bone March and the NK, but resenting any interference with their traditional freedoms and autonomy.

    Cavefolk of the Crystalmists are a new one on me. Where'd you dig them out of? :)

    LG Onnwal did a bit of detailing on the Headland Flan. We set them very much at odds with the Headlander Dwur of the Three Citadels (ancient grudges breaking to new mutiny and all that). The Onnwal LG site has some info on them, for what it's worth. They're the remainder of the indigenous Flan of Onnwal, who would have been allied with the Flan of Ehlissa. Ehlissa had her capital, Carnosa, in the eastern Headlands and is thought to be entombed somewhere in the hills nearby. The LGJ mentioned that the eastern Headlands are dotted with cairns to Ehlissa's Hradikar - the elite bodyguards of the queens. The present day Headlanders are a mix of these folk and the peoples of the Dragonshead proper who were driven into the maze of hills by the Onnwi Suel. LG Onnwal placed four main tribes in the Headlands and given them vaguely Gaelic/Celtic characteristics (though not as extreme as Gyruff).

    The Marshmen of the Rushmoors remind me of the Crannogmen from a Song of Ice and Fire (Howland Reed's people). Again Flannae intermarried with people from the hinterlands of the marshes.

    The Zeai probably don't have their own entry because they hold no significant amount of ground. That could be out of choice (again I think of the Ironmen and the House of Greyjoy from SoI&F whose motto is "We do not sow", preferring to reive and raid than to herd cattle or sheep or plant crops) or necessity (they were driven out by the other clans). It's possible that the Zeai is a collective term for all those folk of the three peoples who give up the life on the land and effectively become sea nomads?

    Sea of Dust - there's mentions of degenerate Suel peoples and then the black skinned Kersi in the south and west (who are likely to be related to the peoples of Zahind).

    Tusmani Hillmen - Baklunish (with perhaps a smidge of Oerid). For some reason, they make me think of the peoples of the Anatolian Plateau/Southern Caucasus.

    And last, but by no means least - the Yorodhi of Ull. Basically, these are the Oerids who remained behind when the Aerdi and the others migrated east. Subsequently overrun by the Baklunish Ulli (and then by the Brazen Horde), they exist now as wild and fiercely independent hilltribes in the Ullsprues and Barrier Peaks. They'd have Oerid gods - though probably in less refined forms than we see in the east. I think Erythnul would be their main war god, with his "sons" Hextor and Heironious as his war captains.
    I think Mortellan and I agree that Kester is an ancient Oeridian foundation and would be looked upon as sacred to the Yorodhi. The LGG introduced them, I think.

    It is a pretty cool idea you've got hold of here! This'd make a very interesting series of Canonfire articles... (hint-hint!). Wink
    Adept Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:26 am  

    Woesinger this is great... thanks!

    As for the Crystalmist Cavemen I have been referring to the Guide to the World of Greyhawk sourcebook...in it are a bunch of encounter tables for all the regions, forests, hills etc...

    there is a joint entry for the Crystalmist, Jotens and Barrier Peaks and there is a chance to encounter both Humans (cavemen) and humans (tribesmen)...the tribesmen I attributed to predominantly Flan groups who are similar enough to the people of Geoff and the other adjacent lands to not need their own entry but the Cavemen don't seem to fit with that model...they sound much more savage / primitive. The Clatspurs, Yatils and Hellfurnaces also have entries for Cavemen.

    those encounter tables are great - they highlight for me a fairly complete distribution for the various races and monsters...for example Aarakoora are only listed in the entries for the Corusk, Griff and Rakers and also the Lortmils and interestingly drow are actually listed as a possibly nighttime encounters in the Sulhauts or Ullsprues. Anojther interesting feature of the Ullsprues is that there is also a chance to encounter creatures off the 2nd Ed Pleistocene encounter table...dinosaurs in Greyhawk? It's given me a whole new concept of Ull with the occasional pteradactyl swooping down on an outlying settlement hehe.

    I've been working with these tables closely because I don't want a world where every race or creatures coul be encountered anywhere...there ar ehills where u will encounter no gnoems and forests where there are no elves for example!
    Master Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:27 am  

    Thinking of Tusmani hillmen:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubykh_people

    Favamancy and Spatulamancy - the new things I learned today. Smile
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:04 am  

    Sea of Dust. The LGG aludes the a tribe called the Hek that is more fully described in the Module UK6. That module also describes a couple jungle people, most particularly the Atem. IMO, the Atem are Amedi Suel, but I have no idea about the Hek. If I had to run with it, I would make them greatly changed Olman. It makes for a nice quirk. Olman in the Sea of Dust and Suel in the Amedio.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:38 am  

    I believe that Gygax has indicated that one of those western mtn ranges (I dont have my map, I seem to recall it was the mtn range between the suel and baklun) where you see the pterodactyls was his idea of a Lost World setting. Unfortunately, he could never get his players to travel there.

    I think he said that he would have had true cavemen in that area as well (pre Flan primitive humans)
    Forum Moderator

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    Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:23 pm  

    Quote:
    Anojther interesting feature of the Ullsprues is that there is also a chance to encounter creatures off the 2nd Ed Pleistocene encounter table...dinosaurs in Greyhawk? It's given me a whole new concept of Ull with the occasional pteradactyl swooping down on an outlying settlement hehe.
    I'm going to step in and correct ya Wolfling, sorry. The Sulhauts are the ones with Pleistocene encounters.
    Forum Moderator

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    Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:31 pm  

    Quote:
    And last, but by no means least - the Yorodhi of Ull. Basically, these are the Oerids who remained behind when the Aerdi and the others migrated east. Subsequently overrun by the Baklunish Ulli (and then by the Brazen Horde), they exist now as wild and fiercely independent hilltribes in the Ullsprues and Barrier Peaks. They'd have Oerid gods - though probably in less refined forms than we see in the east. I think Erythnul would be their main war god, with his "sons" Hextor and Heironious as his war captains.
    I think Mortellan and I agree that Kester is an ancient Oeridian foundation and would be looked upon as sacred to the Yorodhi. The LGG introduced them, I think.
    I concur in every aspect. To help here is my Yorodhi section from Oerth Journal 19:

    Most native Oeridians populating the hills and desert valleys of Ull are of the Yorodhi tribe. Racially they are the most pure strain of Oeridian left in eastern Oerik but with each decade their numbers dwindle due to rampant slavery and skirmishes with their Uli oppressors. Few Yorodhi remember what their culture was like before the Invoked Devastation brought on droves of Baklunish nomads that raided and eventually occupied their settlements.
    The Oeridians have not made a significant organized attempt to retake Ull since their opportunistic attack during the incursion of the Brazen Horde. Since a northward exodus of many lesser Oeridian tribes soon followed Ull’s repulsion of the Brazen Horde, the stubborn Yorodhi are now unorganized, instead happy to exact small revenges on Uli warbands and merchant caravans.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:47 pm  

    This is as good a place as any. I stumbled upon this site: http://www.geocities.com/tmokgurzi/fantasy_speaks.html

    The history in particular has a whole lot of stuff on the Hold of the Sea Princes and the Amedio.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:56 am  

    Woesinger wrote:
    Quote:
    Tareg - inbred descendants of Suloise migrants who became trapped in the Bright Desert. They now roam the border of the NW Bright Desert and foothills of the Abbor-Alz to the south -west.


    These were mentioned in Rary the Traitor (and in the LG core module "The Traitor's Road"). I can't recall if the LGJ article on the Bright touched on them or not.


    Denizens of the Bright Desert says, if I remember aright, that the "brutal" Tareg people accord Kumhaik (the master of the neutral trading village Ul Bakak) "grudging respect". I do not know whether they are mentioned in the other Bright Lands article, because I do not have it.
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