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    Canonfire :: View topic - finishing t1- what would Lareth do?
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    finishing t1- what would Lareth do?
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
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    From: brazil

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    Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:33 am  
    finishing t1- what would Lareth do?

    Im finally finishing running T1. i decide not run for now the "t2-4" part, so we can end the year with "close tags".

    I know that each Dm could make any ending as he want, but i respect and ask for the idea of my fellow greyhawkers here:

    The group heard rumors about the moathouse and some strange things around that area. they went to the moathouse and fight almost all the chambers (they skip the bugbears one and run away before entering corridor to the master's chamber).

    Running back to hommlet (yeah, it was my mistake when i told you they run to Nulb, sorry), in very bad shape, they seek shelter at Jaroo's house, and explained the druid all that they discovered (the most important, the symbol of the Eye).

    Having fought enemies with this symbol before, Terjootold more about the battle of emridy and so.

    The thing is that as i have sad, i just whant to run T1, not caring for now about the rest of the adventure and the temple itself.

    -Lareth whants to kill them, as they have proofs of activity at the moathouse. He knows the pcs are in hommlet.

    -The pcs are investigating thr traders, believing that they can discover some information about the Eye of Flame. One captured guard from the dungeon was Charmed, and told the mage about how there are spies in Hommlet.

    -I have just 2 more days to DM, then all the holydays and stuff will suspend our games for one month, so any thoughts about how to finish this adventure in 2 game sesions (one hour and half each) will be very much apretiated!
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:37 pm  

    If the PCs had killed Lareth, a 10th level assassin would have been dispatched to Hommlet to take retribution on them.

    Lareth knows he can't infiltrate the village, nor can he openly attack because of the need to remain hidden and avoid open confrontation with Burne's Badgers.

    So, have the 10th level assassin (or whatever the equivilant is in whatever edition you're DMing) with maybe an apprentice or two get called in to finish the task.

    If you don't want the PCs to continue to use the village as a base (frankly if you're not going to DM the rest of ToEE I'd suggest getting them out of the area - the lure is simply too great), find a way to make it clear that someone wants them dead, and the best way to say alive long term is to run far and fast.
    Adept Greytalker

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    From: brazil

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    Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:01 pm  

    thanks , john!

    you see, they run away from the dungeon before they met lareth, so they dont even know how he look like.

    the party members runa bout 5th level, so i had to upgrade the adventure a little.

    im running a 2ed game with some 1st ed elements
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:32 am  

    You could have Lareth lure the PCs back out the Moathouse. For instance, a kid approaches the PCs when nobody else is around and says that he and some friends heard that the PCs had gone out to the Moathouse and so the kids dared each other to go there too, and they did. The kid says that he was too afraid to go in, but his friends went into the Moathouse and never came back out and asks if the PCs could help find them. That ought to get the PCs back out to the Moathouse so Lareth can have a chance of killing them(or vice versa). The kid need not be anybody specific or even important, or even live in Hommlet. The kid could in fact be a misguided servant of Lareth even. That ought to allow you to wrap everything up in two game sessions before the holdiays and you can save T2-4 for after the holidays.

    Last edited by Cebrion on Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:34 am  

    Cebrion wrote:
    You could have Lareth lure the PCs back out the Moathouse. For instance, a kid approaches the PCs when nobody else is around and says that he and some friends heard that the PCs had gone out to the Moathouse and so the kids dared each other to go there too, and they did. The kid says that he was too afraid to go in, but his friends went into the Moathouse and never came back out and asks if the PCs could help find them. That ought to get the PCs back out to the Moathouse so Lareth can have a chance of killing them(or vice versa). The kid need not be anybody specific or even important, or even live in Hommlet. The kid could in fact be a misguided servant of Lareth even. That ought to allow you to wrap everything up in two game sessions before the holdiays and you can save T2-4 for after the holidays.


    wow...you are a truly mastermind, Cebrion! it will work for sure.

    i will name the kid after you Happy
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:25 pm  

    LOL! Laughing
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:27 am  

    Remember that Lareth is a 'gifted' individual. He is cunning, charismatic, intelligent, as well as being a natural leader. He would know that his position is untenable. The majority of his underlings have been annihilated and the perps who did it got away and told the authorities! Even if the PCs don't come back, he knows it is only a matter of time before the authorities, led by Rufus and Burne, will come to finish him.

    Lareth has a couple of options, here are the ones that immediately come to my mind.

    1) he could fortify what he has left (it is not unreasonable to give him 1 HD of monsters for every day the party is not in the Moathouse, that is what the TOEE module says to do) and wait for the inevitable showdown - since Lareth is intelligent he knows he'll just die, even if he flees the fight he will just be tracked down by the local rangers and druids

    2) he flees to Nulb and regroups, being charismatic and rich he could easily buy the loyalty of the local thugs and set up a power base - if he chose this route it would be likely he would want to keep on the downlow as any open activity will bring the authorities down on him (how much he makes himself a public personality depends on how independent from Verbobonc you set Nulb up to be)

    3) attack Hommlett - he could create a diversion that lures the PCs out of town, hoping to ambush them. This could be a great opportunity for the PCs to lead Burne's Badgers, giving the them some leadership roles and how to conduct troops. Of course he would need some additional troops to make this one work. If I remember, Lareth is 5th level, he could easily set about animating himself some zombies and skeletons (they could be the diversionary force). It would probably be worthwhile, if you don't mind diverging from the module, to look up the 2E specialty priest of Lolth and give him that. This would be a good place for him to fake his own death (by dressing someone to look like him for the PCs to kill) so Lareth can run off into the sunset. I don't know if you're going to play up a legal system, if you do, it would be interesting to see what the party does when the poor guy's family bring a wrongful death suit, or a murder charge against the party! Spending their hard-earned money on legal representation would be reason enough to go adventuring. The trick is trying not make something like that onerous, but fun.

    4) run away - this one defeats the purpose, and tracking someone down in an RPG isn't that entertaining. However, he could run. Since you're not keen in running T2-4, you could create some adventures dealing with corrupt officials who are really Temple agents.

    I am running the TOEE right now. I am also running a thief game that takes place in the city of Verbobonc, both games are running concurrently. One party gets to deal with the Temple directly, the other sees how the Temple is affecting the wider populace and the game world. My PCs are dealing with a Thief's Guild that is run by Temple agents, Rannos and Gremag and their network of smugglers and go-betweens. My recommendation is to take pen and paper (i recommend it over using Word) and write out how a large and heavily populated structure like the Temple can possibly survive and the wider affect the increase in brigands and the rumors of its resurrection is having on the surrounding countryside. Of course the Temple's agents will have infiltrated town and city governments across the Viscounty trying to keep the forces of Good from coming down on the Temple again. I found writing all of this greatly enhanced my game, even though i'm only using a fraction of what i wrote! It really goes a long way to creating a living and breathing world for the players.

    ciao,
    The Grey Mouser
    Adept Greytalker

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    From: brazil

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    Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:27 am  

    oh man!
    wht some players have to be so greedy?

    The pcs had a prisioner (a soldier from the moathouse dungeon) and the M-U used charm person. Suspecting Rannos, he sent the soldier to Rannos, to see his reaction.

    By letting the soldier in, he let a invisible gnome in too.
    After hearing the soldier story, they decide to kill him for his lack of ability

    the gnome started to search the trade house for goods, both invisible AND flying. When he got to the traders room, he waited just to be sure that they were still busy with the soldier, so he could try to steal the safe. the safe, of course, had some trap, and he got poisoned, and run away by the window.




    all this cost me one of the two days i had to finish my T1 adventure!
    as far as i can see, i will had to wait a little longer, or have to haste the "boy enconter" suggested by Cebrion.



    any thoughts?

    (oh, highjacking myself, but do you guys think its possible to study a magic whe you are invisible and flying? invisibility last for 24 hours unless disrupted)
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 06, 2003
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    Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:28 am  

    no, I would rule that it is not possible to study magic while flying and invisible. You could do it invisibly, though. Flying, as I envision it, requires some concentration to maintain flight.

    Wow, your PCs are totally unscrupulous. Are they evil? Lemme guess, they're Chaotic Neutrals, or, they are some kind of non-Lawful Good Goods reasoning that using this kind of action is, in fact, okay because the badguys are evil. Rannos and Gremag are both very intelligent. They didn't get to their levels by being dumb. They are also very mean and suspicious. In my campaign I set Rannos up as a Guildmaster, afterall, he is the head of a network of Temple agents. His base of operations just happens to be Hommlett. Anyway, just because a PC is invisible and flying doesn't negate the fact that he, too, can make some noise, especially if he is stealing items.

    I would remind the players of their alignment and what right and wrong is. I have over the years contemplated on Good and Evil and what they are, and what they are not. People have been thinking on this ever since the advent of civilization. Encourage them to see the world through their character's eyes. If necessary, have them imagine what they would do if they faced a situation similar or identical to the one their character's face. I wouldn't penalize them through experience arbitrarily or even tell them not to do certain things. I would let them know that they are not being consistent with their character, or their character's background. If they insist, ask them if this means their character is changing his outlook on the world. If you give out role-playing experience reduce it based on inconsistent role-playing.

    One of things I enjoy having in my game is what I call Gravity. PCs don't exist in a bubble. Like the old saying, 'no man is an island.' Their actions have an impact, especially how NPCs will see and regard them. Some NPCs will care about certain actions over others. Most of the Hommlett NPCs would react unfavorably to the PC's actions. Even Terjon and Calmer would be upset over the simple fact they are stealing, even though Rannos and Gremag are evil.

    Its not hard what Rannos' and Gremag's actions would be if they found out that the PCs are trying to steal from them. I had Gremag use his disguise ability to start murdering town NPCs dressed as one of the character's. Gremag and Rannos could wipe out a party. However, given the relative lack of maturity of your players, that probably wouldn't be advisable. Younger players, as I've noticed, get discouraged MUCH easier than older players.

    Ciao,
    The Grey Mouser
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:25 am  

    Rossik: you should read the invisibility spell. The problem you think you have does not exist.

    An invisibility spell can be cancelled at will, be it the caster of the spell or somebody the spell is cast upon.

    As the recipient of the spell and their equipment becomes invisible to normal vison and infravision, the caster cannot see himself or his own equipment unless they have some sort of ability to see invisible things(i.e true seeing or similar magic or something else altogether). The spell goes on to state that items put down by a recipeint of the spell do become visible, so if a spellbook was put down it would become visible and be able to be read.

    As to Rannos and Gremag, they will cetianly know that their chest trap has been sprung, and will keep an eye/ear out to see who was poisoned. The blood on the needle ought to tip them off that somebody got some poison. They will not stick around to get caught by the local authorities if they think their cover is blown, particularly if they think the soldier was a diversion while an unknown thief tried to steal from them. They will surely send an agent out to the Moathouse to enquire as to why one of Lareth's toadies came to visit them. That of course will let the Traders know that the PCs are likely behind things and the Traders will likely disappear, thinking their cover is blown or in jeopardy at the very least. If the Traders do leave they will surely call for the Assassin to pay the PCs a visit as in the Lareth scenario. You could put the Traders in with a faction of the Temple where the PCs can encounter them later.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:12 am  

    thanks to both of you, guys!

    you see, i DM for a long time, but still have so much to learn...thats one of the wonderfull things of being part of a discussion forum!

    Cebrion just sad a simple thing: the words are invisible! how could he study?

    oh man, shame on me Laughing

    and greymouser, about their alignament, the ones involved are indeed a bit chaotic neutral, but i will have a word with them.

    thanks again, guys
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:48 am  
    Memorization

    Wouldn't both spells have been memorized from a spell book before casting? Or did I miss a part about reading from an invisible scroll?
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:58 am  
    Re: Memorization

    Raymond wrote:
    Wouldn't both spells have been memorized from a spell book before casting? Or did I miss a part about reading from an invisible scroll?


    i just sad that he was invisible, but actually didnt tell you guys that another M-U cast those spells on him Happy
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:22 pm  

    Or if Rannos and Gremag DON'T think their cover is blown and know the party is responsible, they might set the local authorities on them. After all the traders are well established in town and the adventurers probably haven't proven their intentions to the authorities. Who are Burne, Rufus, and Terjon going to believe? Also, if they're chaotic neutral (and act it), the authorities probably won't look very favorably on them, viewing them as a bunch of footloose adventurers who are probably just going to stir up alot of trouble.
    GreySage

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    Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:29 pm  

    Cebrion wrote:
    Rossik: you should read the invisibility spell. . . . As the recipient of the spell and their equipment becomes invisible to normal vison and infravision, the caster cannot see himself or his own equipment unless they have some sort of ability to see invisible things(i.e true seeing or similar magic or something else altogether). The spell goes on to state that items put down by a recipeint of the spell do become visible, so if a spellbook was put down it would become visible and be able to be read.


    As Cebrion said, the Recipient of the spell becomes invisible along with anything he holds in his hand. Wink

    How the spell was cast, or who cast the spell, is relatively unimportant to the original presentation of the situation. Sad

    Whoever, the spell was cast upon would become invisible along with anything he/she held in his/her hands. I imagine that -- while you are flying -- you're going to have to actually hold on to the book with your hands. Wink

    Otherwise, the invisible person (while not flying) could place the open book upon a table and simply flip the pages. But, I've been wrong before. Happy

    What do you think, Cebrion? Confused
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    GreySage

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    Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:35 pm  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    . . . they might set the local authorities on them. After all the traders are well established in town and the adventurers probably haven't proven their intentions to the authorities. . . . the authorities probably won't look very favorably on them, viewing them as a bunch of footloose adventurers who are probably just going to stir up alot of trouble.


    Smillion! You've been in trouble before! Shocked

    Bad dog! No biscuit! Errrr, I mean, bad kitty, no Catnip! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:21 am  

    [quote="Mystic-Scholar"]
    Cebrion wrote:
    Otherwise, the invisible person (while not flying) could place the open book upon a table and simply flip the pages. But, I've been wrong before. Happy

    What do you think, Cebrion? Confused


    Yep, you could flip the pages without becoming visible as this does not meet the requirements for cancelling the invisibility spell.

    One more thing to add- the pages wouldn't become invisible either as once the item is put down it remains visible. There is an article in Dragon #105(page 20) entitled "Seeing is Believing" which examines in more detail the three variant forms of invisibilty that appear in the 1e rules than the spell itself covers. The article for instance does say that the recipient of the spell can see themselves just fine, as the spell is an illusion that they are aware of and so they are not affected by it as others are around them. In the end, just be a DM and do things the way you want to do them, as I seem to recall(perhaps incorrectly, but perhaps not) that there is conflicting advice in the "Sage Advice" column at some point in time.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:52 pm  
    If I had a hammer...everything looks like a gnome...

    Canoneers,

    I have always found that a warhammer is effective against a pesky flying gnome problem. If that does not work, try cloudkill...

    H
    Adept Greytalker

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    Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:09 am  

    rossik wrote:
    Cebrion wrote:
    You could have Lareth lure the PCs back out the Moathouse. For instance, a kid approaches the PCs when nobody else is around and says that he and some friends heard that the PCs had gone out to the Moathouse and so the kids dared each other to go there too, and they did. The kid says that he was too afraid to go in, but his friends went into the Moathouse and never came back out and asks if the PCs could help find them. That ought to get the PCs back out to the Moathouse so Lareth can have a chance of killing them(or vice versa). The kid need not be anybody specific or even important, or even live in Hommlet. The kid could in fact be a misguided servant of Lareth even. That ought to allow you to wrap everything up in two game sessions before the holdiays and you can save T2-4 for after the holidays.


    wow...you are a truly mastermind, Cebrion! it will work for sure.

    i will name the kid after you Happy


    just to let you know, little "Cennbrio" (had to change a little, it feel like a very greyhawkish think to do) is guinding them to a trap!

    they actually suspect that its a trap, but at least , i could get the story going (nothing against interaction and interpretation in hommlet, but the story must go on!)
    Adept Greytalker

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    Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:03 pm  

    and today, after a little more then 20 game sessions (once per week, a hour and a half each) we finished T1!!!

    the heroes were lured by Lareth to a open field (with just some bushes and trees), where they were (is all that "were and where" correct? Shocked ) ambushed by the remaining troops of the moathouse (PCs had flee, with all the bugbears and soldiers left.)

    i tried to play smart, so the archers attacked first. the heroes try to get close range, but then...soldier with spear attacked! disguised with leaves on the ground, they break the heroes formation, keeping they at distance. the archers let rain lots of arrows!


    breaking the spear formation, the bugbear heavy soldiers attacked, protecting the archers.

    meanwhile, spiders summoned by Lareth (hey, he's a cleric of lolth,after all..:D) attack the spell casters, with bites and poison!

    lots of man down, Lareth, his captain, some archers and a sergeant engaged the heroes. Continual darkness, silence and all sort of "Bad magic" made the PCs life very hard!

    in the end, Lareth was traped inside his own globe of darkness with 2 heroes and Elmo (the rest of his troopes went down by "area spells", like color spray and such), i ruled that Lareth could see inside the darkness, a gift from Loth. The poor PCs couldnt screem, as the silence 15' still on! One was knocked down!


    but then, the hold person spell against the cleric of heironeous went off, and he cast Light!

    in the end, after defeting Lareth (he was surrounded by the heroes), the poor cleric of heironeous almost died, as Lareth's captain woke up from Color Spray!


    oh boy, we had lots of fun with this one!

    Thanks Cebrion, Crag, Telemachus, DMPrata, ScottG, rasgon and all of you guys (sorry for not list everyone, but almost every active member in this forum helped me!).

    we sure had a great time Happy


    now lets go back to Verbobonc!
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:04 pm  

    Sounds like you got a lot of good play out of T1. T2-4 ought to be loads of fun for your group. Hopefully the players have learned how to work together as a group, as many encounters in T2-4 require that for their characters' survival. There are some really dangerous areas inside the ToEE; at all levels of play. I didn't lose either or the 2 characters I had when I played through it, but that was not the case with everyone else. Our death toll reached 8(if I recall correctly) by the time we were done. Besided the adveutre being a blast, we also ended up learning a lot about how the main rules of the game worked.
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