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    Canonfire :: View topic - The plethora of paladins revisited!!
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    The plethora of paladins revisited!!
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 16, 2007
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    Wed May 30, 2007 6:52 pm  
    The plethora of paladins revisited!!

    Shocked Laughing

    The plethora of paladins revisited!!

    In a recent thread I read some DM’s have taken a view that only the L/G deities (oh and they mention L/N) can have the Paladin Holy Warriors. I am afraid I can’t support that viewpoint. In the game there is room for Paladin/Holy Warriors for every alignment and diety. It makes the class much more available for those who don’t like the alignment based restrictions that the L/G Paladin imposes.

    In the games I have run I have allowed PC’s to chose from all alignments to find a Paladin/Holy Warrior (of 1 Faith) to play. The background material comes from the Dragon Magazine July 1980 for the Anti Paladin. (The first to introduce the non L/G type of paladin). It was carried on further in the Dragon Magazine February 1986 with the “A Plethora of Paladins” which supplied a nice set of those Paladin/Holy Warriors of the Faith that I mentioned. (I reworked some of the material to have them capable of using some of the arch typical Paladin Skills like healing touch, holy swords, and special mounts.

    Those other paladins are: (L/N Lyan; L/E Illrigger; N/G Myrikhan; T/N Paramander; N/E Arrikhan; C/G Garath; C/N Fantra). Now the forces of the Druids and nature can have a Paladin of their own to defend their belief set.

    The idea offers a certain flavor of adventure hooks for the Paladin conflicts that are bound to arise as the Holy Warriors of one deity square off against their nemesis deity’s forces. I has all sorts of campaign implications too if you place the alignment/deity chosen portfolio into play. What will the forces of bane with their Illrigger Paladins come into contact with the forces of Chanteau and her Myikhan Paladins meet. Maybe while the Banites are pillaging a simple farming community!!! (The outrage!!!).

    It would be a slugfest and should our party run willy nilly into such a fray the consequences could well embroil them into the situation…..oooooooooo……the painnnnn……the hurting!!!!!

    Not a bad idea really. Keeps those goody two shoe paladins in the place, and the next time the paladin sees that glowing blade that seems to resist magic detection that ol’ L/G Paladin might not be so eager to just go over and pick it up. (They always get that mine, mine, mine…..look in their eyes too).

    So can your game handle this idea???

    Later

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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 16, 2007
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    Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:07 pm  

    Shocked

    Here is some added examples and information about the idea that I have used during the years.

    First my personal experiences with the variation in my time as DM and PC.

    I have played an Paramander of Hermes (Greek Mythos). He had a few thiefly powers in addition to the some of the paladin ones. I have also had two players chose to play these paladin variations. One played an Illrigger of Grumsh (Yes an orc Paladin) & the other played a Fantra of Dionyous....He didn't last long.....he liked to worship his god by drinking just a weeeeee bit too much.

    Secondly here are how I percieve some of the variations that would occur in the use of the plethora of paladins ideas.

    So lets go a step further here with the paladin powers. What powers would be universal, and which would be changed by alignment/faith. (and how).

    1) All stats limitations remain the same.

    2) Races Allowed could vary due to diety choice....such as the Illrigger of Grumush above.

    3) Detect Evil....becomes detect opposite alignments for good/evils and for neutrals they can distinguish both.

    4) Save bonus +2 remains

    5) Immune to all diseases is a deity based power so they can keep it.

    6) Aura's of protection remain vs alignments not their own.

    7) Holy swords for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Turn undead, devils, demons.....the article addresses this, but this could also be where there is a little DM complication.

    First the undead turning can be made into controlling by the Evil aligned paladins. For the neutrals there would be NO turning for T/N, and all others neutrals must not be part of a nature patheon as Undead are beyond their understanding to control or affect (druids can't turn undead). Finally with the devil/demon turning there will be a need to review the Outer Planes monster compendiums to find the correct type of creatures that may be turned. Anti paladins would affect some of the aasimar.....others would affect the guardinal, eladrin, rilmani, beatzu....

    AS DM you will have to handle the details here.

    9) Call on warhorse........this power could be more viably made into warmount....as some races and faiths would have their own version of the faithful mount.

    10) Cast priest spells......this is taken care of by the original Dragon Magazine Article.

    Now with these said I want to mention a small bit on the variations of personal beliefs....which it does appear that some wish to have limitations int he playing of alignment.

    The ideas of faith/belief structures would be well and truely tied into the deity they chose and their alignment. Just because it isn't good or evil doesn't mean that is unswervingly follows a set of beliefs tied to its religious order.

    Heck look at real world faiths, and all the varieties of belief systems, now multiply it by the varied levels of personal zeal one carries for such a belief system, and in my lowly opinion you can easilly integrate the militant orders of each faith and alignment to have their cadre of Paladins.

    Also for my ol' Paramander....The Paramander above worshipped with a lot of very zealous stealing in the Name of Hermes......and he also enjoyed a game of cards from time to time.....lucky such and such.

    Just some ideas on the subject.

    Later

    Wink
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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    Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:56 am  

    1e, rather than 2e, but you might enjoy it ... The Corvetteers of Osprem

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=655

    I would go a little further on variation, for example Holy Weapon, rather than holy sword to reflect god and culture preference. Also, instead of just good-evil for protection and detect, Law-Chaos could be more important.

    Keep up the good work.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 16, 2007
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    Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:08 pm  

    Cool

    Thanks for the compliment and the link.....I'm not really the paladin type very often, but from time to time it is great to be something other than a mage.

    Thanks again....later..

    Wink

    PS....1st and 2nd ed are interchangable toem me so 1st ed just gets the upgrade to 2nd ed when I play it. 3.?? also gets the converrsion.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

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    Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:12 am  

    Rather than strip away turning from the TN paladins, you might just have them able to turn outer planar cretures of extreme alignments(those without a Neutral component in their alignment), as such things are generally an affornt to the natural order. Plus, this allows them to retain an ability that all of the others have, even if it works differently. If the ability is taken completely away there should be some other benefit given to them instead, such as a druid's shape shifting ability or something along those lines. It shouldn't suck to be TN! Happy
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 16, 2007
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    Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:19 pm  

    Shocked Cool

    For me neutral deities should retain their undead turning abilities regardless of their druid status.

    For some I have played under the Druid is the only neutral clerics that loose that undead turning ablity, and for some of us that is sort of a weakly projected idea.

    The druid is a protector of the world of nature, so by extension they should be able to manipulate/affect undead that are an abomination of life/death/nature.

    At least that was the tweak of it on the other site.

    I always let neutral clerics turn, and when I run again I will probably house rule in that druids can only turn/destroy undead.

    Later

    Wink Cool
    Novice

    Joined: Jan 07, 2009
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    Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:32 am  
    Paladin are paragons

    Yea i understand the need to water down the paladin but understand that there arent supposed to be allot a paladins maybe like 2 a generation and there supposed to hold the highest of ideals there supposed to be the Galahads of the game pure in every way thats why they get so much at 1st level and why there so powerful. They have allot of restrictions because of this.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
    Posts: 924
    From: Computer Desk

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    Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:26 pm  

    Another reason; hold over of heroic fantasy but paladins are suppose to be more then a "special class" tied to a specific deity but the stalwart champion of the pure of heart.

    Rather then spawn a bunch of paladin copies for each deity; I think neglects the heroic aspect of a class that was intended to confront the evil of the abyss and inspire the hopeless.

    If you want to create specific classes for each diety; I have no objection - perhaps I do, I would have to see the draft. Instead of simply copying the paladin; so players can get the abilities without the alignment problems. Why not create a specific class from scratch with abilities that embody the beliefs and ethos of the deities.

    Unless it really is simply about getting the abilities of a paladin without having to play one.
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