I have run into some bad groups, too. I played in a GH game about fifteen years ago where three, and I do not jest, three of the PC's were chaotic good drow rangers who fought with double weapons.
When I do play, which usually is rare, I can never quite shake the DM out of me, so I tend to state my suggested goal of an action as I state what I am doing. This is because I know my ****.
Anyhow, if you are ever in the KC area, you can play in my Sunday game.
Lol - that was hilarious. I mean hilariously bad obviously. Any DM that has so little idea how to balance and counter-balance issues between the players so that everybody has fun needs a lot more practice. However, offering to sell the wizard's spell book to a giant was never going to endear you to the group now was it? And if they had so much spare cash, why not ask to borrow money off the other players to buy some equipment and offer them 20% of your share of the treasure until the debt is paid off?
You could have offered to DM a game and see how you got on. If they accepted then you know that they don't hate you... Try not to be vindictive obviously! Better off hunting for some new blood though...
My friends might not have always played well together because of stuff outside the game but I've never heard of such a situation that bad. I've played SOLO modules before and while some of them are somewhat entertaining, playing with people is hands-down the best way to play. You shouldn't be shy about playing with a different group of people. Maybe ask those people that didn't know what was wrong if they'd want to play with you as the DM.
The closest experience I had to that was asking a DM if I could take my 24th level thief that I never got to play in another game to his. The character had nothing but standard equipment from 3d6 gold roll and was in a party that had fought Tiamat and survivied. The character was so regulated to do nothing against creatures that required magic to hit them that eventually the DM said that while no one was looking a little ugly character had knocked me out (no save) and taken me into some caves. The character would make a gollum sound. Eventually my character was killed by Gollum without surprise, initiative, or saving throw. So I did nothing but watch the rest of the group play while my PC was singled out roaming caves until it died. If the DM didn't want my high-level character without equipment or that many hit points to play because he was afraid that 24th level was going to unbalance his game, then he should have just told me to roll a new one for his campaign. I played with that guy in other games where someone else was the DM or I was the DM and everything was fine.
I should note that we were all in high school at the time.
I have encountered similiar groups in my time, so you are not alone. Just mark it up as a lesson learned and remember it when you join another group or start your own. Don't treat others the way you were treated. I sit here and smile and think of all my house rules, most were created because I didn't like the way others ran their games.
I sympathize but it is hard to be in a group when you play solo.
It is tough being the new character especially with an established group with established characters.
If it was simply about the books & dice - I would have left them in the room next time. Some groups I've seen even haze first time players to see if they are serious although to be honest I've always subscribed to the more inclusive "the more the merrier method" rather then "the prove you belong method".
I agree with PaulN6 - Perhaps a private word with your roomate afterward would have been better and an offer to DM a new campaign from scratch most people choose to play and it is obvious in the telling that wasn't going to happen. That way they don't have to risk their special characters and you get to judge the group intent perhaps the DM didn't know what he was doing or resented you for not putting the cap back on the toothpaste for the 100th time. Perhaps his girlfriend or boyfriend mentioned to him that you are a nice guy and such blue eyes...
My suggestion, if you were right and they are just a bunch of morons - DM a thrilling session and just before it ends come up with a completely ridiculous pointless totally unfair means to kill off the lot - Demon Lord appears announces he needs to test a new artifact and everyone is dead - no save. So sorry better luck next time mates. Gather up your things - smile and mention you had a good time - leave. If they are true morons - they might even ask you to DM again - next time - Ground opens up and swallows them whole - no save.
Don't give up on the social aspect of the game some good games exist out there. I haven't found an old time group for a while but then I have not looked either.
Some 15 years ago or so I got invited to a group from a old high school friend and i too was put in the same situation. My friend friend's were looking for a cleric ( no one wanted to play ). The DM started me at 2nd lvl when every one else was 5th and i had to play a cleric who warshipped pelor. I could understand if was part of his story line but it was not. All of the other players all had at least +2 weapons and armors
( our fighter allready had +3 suit of full plate and shield ). I started with just standard equipment.
After 4 weekends of playing i reached 4th lvl and had no magic items and everything the DM was handing out was for other players
On the other side of the coin i run two campaigns , frist one is a GH with all of the players being good and the other one is generic campaign with the players being evil ( and is the most fun, the first time running a evil campaign )
My two groups ( good camp. has 5 players / evil camp. has 4 players) pretty much have the same story as everyone else. Dont let 1 VERY BAD exp. turn you away. We all have been their. Just ask around and you'll find a good group. Not everyone are bad apple's
Yeah, I remember playing DnD with my friend's college-aged brother and his friends when I was in middle school. I have always been a pretty sharp fellow, but that made no difference to these cats.
I wanted to play what I remember being a ninja thief kit in a Faerun game. In this game we did not get to use our character sheets, only the DM could. I failed every hide in shadows check, pick-pocket check, everything. Eventually, I got hit for one point of damage from slipping and falling off a barrel and died. Apparently I had rolled a one for hit points.
I did not take that sort of crap lying down, however. Being six feet tall in the eighth grade and a possessing a generally hot temperament I balled up my sheet of notes (I was the only player who took time to write any) threw it and my pen at the DM. He said, "that was mature." That got me even more angry so I flipped the table and started swearing and threatening everyone.
About six months later they let me play again. They were, to a man, nice as hell to me. One of the guys at the table wanted to be Bruce Lee pretty bad, and at the first game he was a jerk to me, at this second game he was the nicest of all.
I think once I established that I would not take any **** from any of them because of my age, they quit judging me by that.
Gamers are generally a non-confrontational lot that tend to be forced to maintain a perspective where they respect reason. So in some cases if you state your argument you will be met with positive dialog. However, in most cases gamers like to be right more than anything. Therefore if you protest the only response you are likely to get is an insult. That is when you wad up your character sheet, throw it at your bastard of a DM and swing and spit your way out of the little corner you were stuck in.
I once had a DM tell me I missed on a natural 20 in a 3rd Edition game. Generally I will respect a situation where a DM changes the rules. However, his pet player, his girlfriend, had been all critical happy all night even to the extent of hitting the enemies fluctuating armor class. I called shenanigans on his call that I missed and he said, "You are really close to not being able to play in my game anymore."
So I balled up my character sheet, threw it at his face, and he came across the table at me.
We got into it pretty heavy, but the fight was broken up before any blood was shed. After that the other players (except for schnooky-wookums) all got together and told them they hated his game and did not want to continue the campaign.
If you show people you will take **** they will keep giving it to you. My example of getting pissed off and throwing **** and swearing is probably not the best to follow, but I still play a lot of DnD and no one ever tries to step on my toes. I play in one game a week and am the youngest by ten years.
I found there are ten things that you should never say when at a new table for a game, regardless of whether you think they are true:
1. You have never seen Krull.
2. Faerun is gay. (It is, btw).
3. Tolkien ripped off Richard Wagner.
4. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is not the greatest Star Trek film. (Even though it is...by a long shot).
5. R.A. Salvatore cannot write his way out of a wet paper bag. (He can't.)
6. Hawk the Slayer is better than The Sword and the Sorcerer.
7. You like Final Fantasy games. (I really do, actually).
8. Knights of the Old Republic was mediocre. (It was).
9. Say anything bad about the Scottish. (Every gamer everywhere is descended from William Wallace, that is fact).
And quite possibly the worst thing you can say to a group of gamers.
10. Ben Affleck should replace Harrison Ford for Indiana Jones 5.
So avoid all that and fight your way to respect.
I do not think I have every given anyone advice I myself would not follow.
Hmm, apparently your roommate wanted you to join the group, but the others obviously didn't want anyone new in the game. I've seen this situation before and quit the group on account of it.
A new person was brought in -- still in the Army at the time -- and I was fine with it, but some others were not. I decided I didn't want to play with people like that. Sadly, you find them out there often enough.
Crikey! I suppose I should thank my lucky stars that I've never been in that situation. 23 years of gaming and never anything remotely like it. I've had obnoxious players before but never a DM or group that would tolerate them for long. Still, it was a long time ago and surely you can find a better group somewhere, and have much more fun for your trouble...
People who like this hobby invariably come across those who don't do so well interacting with others in Real Life.
That's why finding a good group of people who are "normal" (what is normal depends on a lot of things really), and whose play styles mesh with yours well is truly gold.
I play some solo games myself, where I DM for one player. This usually happens between regular game sessions when something takes place that doesn't require the whole group to be present (i.e. the Bard wants to track down some new music in the new city the group just arrived at).
And I can understand not wanting to offer to DM because it's all you had done for a long time... am in that trap perpetually myself. Just can't seem to get the DM out of me when I try to play.
This is why any "good" group I've been a part of over the past 15 years have established a policy of an informal meeting before we add someone new to a game night, where a few of us go somewhere to a pool hall or drinking establishment and meet with the prospective player for an hour (or longer if its going well... heh), and report back to the rest of the group. After that it's overall consensus on the decision. Only then does the 'newb' get all our contact information and address(es) for gaming.
Great idea John D. I've been gaming for over 30 years and have never encountered that method before. We usually make the newb watch for a game or two and if he/she can tolerate us and us her/him we allow them to play. I like the idea of meeting on a social level and then making the invite to play. Thanks.
"Solo" to me is one person is playing and DMing themself while "One on One" is one DM and one player.
I tried some of the TSR SOLO modules but never thought that a regular module would be fair as a solo trip because of things like secret doors on the maps.
I've looked at the One on One modules before but never got a chance to play them. O1 read like it would be fun for a single character or even more than one. The "MSOLO1" module also looked like it would be fun to run as a one on one module. I can't play the "MSOLO2" module since I don't have a good map.
how do you play solo? i know tehres a few d&d books, but is thee any rules to do so?
also, im the DM of my 2 people group - me and my friend. i've DMed most of the time, but i have a semi-charater, not a NPC.
Generally I run a solo game as if everyone - including the PC I'm playing - is an NPC. I don't fudge dice rolls, and in any interaction between the character and anyone else I use the Encounter, Morale, and Loyalty charts.
In the last couple of years also, I type up everything that happens on the computer as if I'm writing a story - this helps keep me honest as once I put a character's action down there's less of a desire to say "No, that didn't happen" as a DM fiat after there's a disaster.
One thing that helps is that I have a massive collection of modules and gaming books so that I could go years and never play the same adventure twice - if I wanted to.
Hope that helps
i see, but what about the things that only the DM should know?
how do you do that?
Wow. To be honest I would have never stayed in a group like that. Its very obvious they did not want a new player much less to let you participate in any way.
After the 3rd infraction, I would have had to get up. Leave the table and say sorry this isn't working out. I do not feel welcome to this session of the "Tin Foil Hat Society". Bow out, walk up to the DM and kindly tell him if you didn't want other players SAY SO!
Hi all -
I blame the poster. He just sucks, I'd likely do the same thing to him if he came to my table for Pathfinder / 3.5 OGL.
He'd come to the table with his Magic User from 3.5 and I'd tell him that we're playing Pathfinder rules. So he's spend the next 15min modifying to PFRPG, and then I'd tell him that there's no magic in The Pale, except those so specified by the Theocrat, so he'd have to pick a new class. Of course we also play with character points (28 iirc), and whatever he placed those in for his MU, he'd be stuck with them in those positions.
Next, if he asked for a Paladin, I'd say well, Paladins are difficult because they have to follow Pholtus, and he's LN and so if you screw up and be too goody-to-shoes, you'll loose your Paladinhood. Next, Cleric, well you don't know enough about Pholtus, so you couldn't really play a Cleric. Ranger, hmm, you got $10? No, ok, then you get a Rogue. But of course, The Pale is known to be the only place that there is no active Thieves Guild, so HA!
Getting magical items, well, he was lucky he got to be 9th level, so I'm sure he woulda stole something, and as such, in The Pale, with no Theives Guild, he woulda been doing a stretch of time in the Jails of Wintershiven and re-training camps. He'll make a fine farmer. As a Farmer he has a hoe. As a farmer, he doesn't need any armor, it's not like some Ankheg's or Bullette's are going to suddenly show up and eat him. So now JHSII, is fed up with it all and decides to leave for whereever. Along the way, being a thief and all, he steals some bread and does more time. Eventually he makes his way to the Wild Coast (or some other coastal area to play War Rafts of Kron) with pretty much just his Hoe.
He joins a boating company because he's poor. He throws his hoe at the massive shark and it hits the mark, but being a hoe, it doesn't really penetrate the massive shark, and with the heavy end of the Hoe, quickly sinks to the bottom of the river/lake/ocean (it's a hoe, so it slips through the holes in the net [I know what you were gonna say, that the net could have caught it, but come on, he's a farmer.])...well what can you do with poor dice rolls? Role play? Not likely, because that's not gonna get you any experience anyway, I mean you are a Farmer without a hoe.
Now the poor farmer is frustrated and hasn't learned his lessons of being a thief and wants to take some Storm Giant stuff. Doesn't he know it'll be Giant size vs his farmer size? Now the farmer wants to steal from his party members because the Giant stuff is too big for him, but messes up and realizes that he left some seeds behind in the MU's spell component pouch. I mean, of course, if you leave seeds behind, and you're a farmer, it'll be evident that it was you that was trying to steal. And since you've been to jail mulitple times for theft, and haven't learned your lesson (or how to be a better thief or even farmer, for that matter), your only choice is to be sold into slavery. Good thing you're no longer in The Pale, because evidently your a Heathen, and we all know they're only good for making cold nights warm.
Alas, of course we're upset, I mean your dice were rolling awesome (did you see me make my save vs hoe for my shark after you rolled a Nat20?, how I was able to put you in jail and retraining camps even after you had some awesome stats?). Well, with Pathfinder RPG being just one book + all the OGL stuff useable, yeah, well if you take your extra books maybe you'll learn how to make a better character. That's all I'm saying.
So yeah, it's all JSHII's fault.
Be Well. Be Well Knowing This Is All A Lie.
Theocrat Issak the Jester
Sorry to hear about it all. But it is/was a funny read. Hope mine was funnier! _________________ Theocrat Issak
What bugs me the most about the DM in Op's post is that he ignored perfectly legal stat rolls.
All the rest is his call as DM but character creation rolls are sacred. and not to be dicked with.
that is just strongarming and a crook start, that leaves a bad feel for any start of a game. _________________ New to Grey hawk, here on my players request.
getting info to prep campaign, 1st game in two weeks
Have to agree with Donkas on that one, if the DM sets the way stats are to be rolled and you roll the dice in front of the DM, those are your stats. Another early warning sign was the fact that he wasn't going to be allowed to play a MU. With a dozen players, you are going to have multiples of several classes. It is a perfect time to play a specialized class.
JHSII - you need to look for another group, I think one of the more valuable things that I get from gaming is the interaction between the players. No matter how many ways I look at something, my players always come up with something that I did not think of. I think that is the best part. Just my opinion...
I think we all have had incidents that are similiar, but I have to say that yours was pretty bad.
This just made me think, does Canonfire host a get together for a one shot gaming session or anything like that? Do any of the people who post game together?
I think that it would be interesting to generate a Canonfire game based timeline for Greyhawk. It would also be a great way to implement some of the submissions.
I think there was an informal gathering of Greyhawkers at GenCon a couple of years ago, but I wasn't there (of course).
I know a couple of my players come here and to other Greyhawk sites on occasion, but not often. I can't speak for any of the other DMs around here, though.
I'd would be willing to help, don't know what I could do but someone is always needed to order the pizza and I have mad pizza ordering skills...
No seriously, I see alot of people submitting some really interesting things and I think it would be great to run some of these ideas in either an online game or an annual table top event. Plus, I think that it would be great to have an "unofficial" canon/ Canonfire timeline develope by people who really are interested in keeping Greyhawk alive.
Even a list of who lives where and maybe what games you play. That way if some of us live close by and have some free time.... Why wait until a convention?
What?!?! You think I'd actually want to meet any of you miscreants? In person? And risk my reputation? It's hard enough to live with the shame of even talking to you online!
Especially that Theocrat guy (*shudder*) - he completely weirds me out.
Oh, and then there's Mystic_Scholar. What can I say but, "Eeeeewwwww!"
And don't get me started on Holian, chatdemon, Icarus, and the rest of the Thursday night crowd!
Just kidding, of course (except about the Theocrat part ).
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And if they had so much spare cash, why not ask to borrow money off the other players to buy some equipment and offer them 20% of your share of the treasure until the debt is paid off?
