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    Canonfire :: View topic - Suel Laws/Nobility
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    Suel Laws/Nobility
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 17, 2004
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    Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:36 pm  
    Suel Laws/Nobility

    My campaign has been recently converted from 1st to 3rd edition for the sake of drawing in more players, who like building their characters. With that being said one of the players is playing LN with the express interest in playing the prestige class Knight Protector of the Great Kingdom.
    The twist is he wants me use the class and set up it for the Suel Empire.

    My question is: Is there any information on the Empire's Laws or am I gonna have to make them up as I go along?
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 05, 2002
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    From: Sky Island, So Cal

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    Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:41 pm  
    Re: Suel Laws/Nobility

    king_joshua wrote:
    one of the players is playing LN with the express interest in playing the prestige class Knight Protector of the Great Kingdom.
    The twist is he wants me use the class and set up it for the Suel Empire.

    My question is: Is there any information on the Empire's Laws or am I gonna have to make them up as I go along?


    I think the first thing to determine is what time period is your campaign set in. 'Cause like in modern times the Suel Empire doesn't exist and all that. So are you playing before the Rain of Colorless Fire? Or are you playing in "modern" times and somehow this PC belongs to a group that has preserved Suel traditions? (Neheli house in Keoland? Scarlett Brotherhood nobility?)
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    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
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    From: Ullinois

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    Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:27 pm  

    Semi-related to this topic, why does Greyhawk City, which was an Aerdian town before it went independant, conduct its court trials in the Ancient Suloise language? I can understand the latin like feel the authors are going for and the fact it prevents most commoners from defending themselves. But perhaps in the context of this thread, maybe it leaves an opening for GHC laws(which are clearly enumerated in more than one book) to be based on classic Suel ones.
    Remember, the Great Kingdom (at least in the reign of the Naelax) had a draconian set of laws called the Death-Code of Eeas that told which crimes required execution. I think by comparison, GHC has a fairly just set of laws even for a corruptable oligarchy. To tweak this set of generic laws for a Suel culture there would probably be some old biases against Baklunish folk.
    Also to draw some inspiration look to the Suel gods for their ethics perhaps. Example: Hated Pyremius is the god of poison and fire. So poisoners and arsonists could get harsher treatment. A society that worshipped strong Kord and Llerg might believe in 'might makes right' through trials by combat; while on the other side of the coin, Wee Jas is a death, magic AND law-god and Lydia is all about knowledge and light, so Suel laws could proscribe gathering of evidence and heavy use of magic to prove guilt. Even the dead could be sought for testamony in Wee Jas' case.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:51 am  

    mortellan wrote:
    Semi-related to this topic, why does Greyhawk City, which was an Aerdian town before it went independant, conduct its court trials in the Ancient Suloise language?


    It was a Suloise town when it was founded, and only loosely under the control of Aerdy later on. But it was probably Zagig Yragerne who decreed Suloise to be the language of law in the city. It might have just been another insane ruling on his part, a deliberate intent to divorce his city from the Great Kingdom, or a belief that the ancient Suel had a superior legal code, a superior language, or more magical secrets inherent in their language. Or intense lobbying by the church of Wee Jas. Or maybe he decided to adapt the court system of Hardby.

    Quote:
    Remember, the Great Kingdom (at least in the reign of the Naelax) had a draconian set of laws called the Death-Code of Eeas that told which crimes required execution.


    Before the Naelax dynasty took over, the Great Kingdom used the code of Schandor, which seems to have been much more just.

    Quote:
    Example: Hated Pyremius is the god of poison and fire.


    Whether or not Pyremius was hated probably depended on which royal house was in charge. He's not hated by the Scarlet Brotherhood, of course. I imagine assassins were held in high regard during some eras.

    Quote:
    Wee Jas is a death, magic AND law-god


    Remember that Wee Jas didn't become a death-goddess until after the Rain of Colorless Fire indelibly associated death and magic in the eyes of the Suel.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:07 am  

    Actually the campaign is set roughly 300 years after the greyhawk wars, 871 cy.

    I use a continent of my own creation set roughly opposite of the regularly mapped area. They, the party, have found a kingdom roughly the size of spain which are descendants of the Suel empire. They have also found an area roughly the size of the old Persian empire filled with city states which are descendants of the baklunish.
    This avoids alot of "what the players know" 2 of my players are newbs and 4 are senior players.
    Now I have the "scarlet brotherhood" by reynolds but was wondering if there was anymore info on the governing laws of the Suel.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:14 pm  

    I think you're on your own KJ, though tSB would be a good base to build from. I wouldn't worry two much about trying to replicate anything, however, since you're running human reconstructionist state 1300 years after the fall of the Suel Empire. After all, that's a lot of time for laws to change--you'd have a hard time finding one nation that lasted more than 1000 years, period, much less one with stagnant laws.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:29 pm  

    If you're interested in fan created material, there's an adventure called "Suel Imperium: Age of Glory" by Randy Richards that involves the party traveling back in time to the Suloise Empire. I think there's some info he created about Suel laws and culture in there. I want to think it used to be available for download on CF! somewhere, but I couldn't find it in the downloads section. Anyone?
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:03 pm  

    Sounds like a great idea for an article from someone. Smile

    mortellan wrote:
    Semi-related to this topic, why does Greyhawk City, which was an Aerdian town before it went independant, conduct its court trials in the Ancient Suloise language? I can understand the latin like feel the authors are going for and the fact it prevents most commoners from defending themselves. But perhaps in the context of this thread, maybe it leaves an opening for GHC laws(which are clearly enumerated in more than one book) to be based on classic Suel ones.
    Remember, the Great Kingdom (at least in the reign of the Naelax) had a draconian set of laws called the Death-Code of Eeas that told which crimes required execution. I think by comparison, GHC has a fairly just set of laws even for a corruptable oligarchy. To tweak this set of generic laws for a Suel culture there would probably be some old biases against Baklunish folk.
    Also to draw some inspiration look to the Suel gods for their ethics perhaps. Example: Hated Pyremius is the god of poison and fire. So poisoners and arsonists could get harsher treatment. A society that worshipped strong Kord and Llerg might believe in 'might makes right' through trials by combat; while on the other side of the coin, Wee Jas is a death, magic AND law-god and Lydia is all about knowledge and light, so Suel laws could proscribe gathering of evidence and heavy use of magic to prove guilt. Even the dead could be sought for testamony in Wee Jas' case.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 18, 2007
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    Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:15 pm  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    I want to think it used to be available for download on CF! somewhere, but I couldn't find it in the downloads section. Anyone?


    In the original download URL is not available (http://www.greyhawkonline.com/canonfire/RR_001_Suel_Imperium_-_Age_of_Glory.pdf). Probably is in other part of GreyhawkOnline server?

    If is not available in other place, Ive the adventure in my PC.

    Sergio :-)
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:19 pm  

    Ah totally slipped my mind I have that around here somewhere Smillan, thx for reminding me.

    And thank you all for your input into this matter.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:50 am  

    sounds like i need to get a copy of this "Suel Imperium Age of Glory."
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    From: Michigan

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    Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:16 am  

    I don't remember it being very good, honestly. The things I liked about it were mostly cribbed from Len Lakofka's timeline, which also has things I don't like so much. And I'm not sure it had anything on laws. Randy did a bunch of research, about as much as could be done in the mid-1990s (I remember he posted all his notes on the TSR American Online boards as he wrote them), but didn't really have much of quality to contribute himself.

    Speaking personally, I don't think about the Suel Empire nearly as much as I used to. It might be an interesting project to tackle now, if I can get in the mood for it.

    It might be worth it to look at Tal Meta's Sunelan Coast material. He created a series of Suel nations south of the Sea of Dust (in the region most people think of as pseudo-India, but which Tal had a very different take on) that are pretty well done.

    http://canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=188
    http://canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=173
    http://canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=174
    http://canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=170
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 11, 2009
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    From: Verbobonc

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    Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:50 pm  

    Speaking of Tal's Sunelan Coast, I tried to open his map, but it is in .FCW format. Does another program besides Campaign Cartographer open this, preferably a program I do not have to buy?
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    From: Michigan

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    Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:10 pm  

    There's a free viewer: http://www.profantasy.com/library/dpv.asp
    Adept Greytalker

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    From: Verbobonc

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    Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:17 am  

    Thanks much!
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