Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Postcards from the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly
Denizens
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
#greytalk
JOIN THE CHAT
ON DISCORD
    Canonfire :: View topic - Oliphant Hunt
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Oliphant Hunt
    Author Message
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
    Posts: 2590
    From: Ullinois

    Send private message
    Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:31 pm  
    Oliphant Hunt

    http://greyhawkery.blogspot.com/2011/01/oliphant-hunt.html

    From "Greyhawkery", I found a very good topic for the bright minds here at CF to discuss. Elephants in the Flanaess? Are there any canon examples? Anyone have thoughts on their use in war?
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 21, 2003
    Posts: 538
    From: Germany

    Send private message
    Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:25 am  

    Dungeon adventures by David Howery:

    Issue #15 Volume III, Number 3 (January/February 1989)

    ELEPHANTS' GRAVEYARD, THE*
    AD&D GREYHAWK adventure, 5-8 characters of levels 5-7
    Written by: David Howery
    Artwork by: John Paul Leon
    Jungle, tropical to sub-tropical
    15 pages

    Description: Characters chase an ancient legend and a fortune in precious ivory.

    Issue #34 Volume VI, Number 4 (March/April 1992)
    ROGUE
    AD&D SideTrek adventure, 5-7 characters of levels 4-5
    Written by: David Howery
    Jungle, tropical
    2 pages

    Description: The Watangas need brave heroes to hunt down a rogue bull elephant called Olengata.


    They are possibly also mentioned in his Dragon articles...


    Last edited by Thanael on Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
    Posts: 2590
    From: Ullinois

    Send private message
    Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:47 pm  

    Excellent Thanael! I never knew about the Dungeon Magazine mods. I had remembered Howery's Hepmonaland-take but figured it would be easier to use SKR's Scarlet Brotherhood for reference first.

    I know there is a 1e source somewhere out there but it probably got lost in the most recent editions, but what is the comparative value of ivory in D&D?
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 30, 2004
    Posts: 107


    Send private message
    Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:03 pm  

    1e and 2e both list elephant ivory as being worth 4 gp per pound, with a typical tusk being worth 100-600 gp.

    I don't recall seeing a value in 3e. I thought it might be in Draconomicon, since it has a chapter on creating treasure hoards that are more then just coins, but ivory isn't in the list of trade goods and valuable materials in that book.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

    Send private message
    Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:37 pm  

    Aren't there freakin' elephants in the Vale of the Mage? Let me check... Yes. There are indeed elephants in the Vale of the Mage. I really can't be having with that. Shocked I'm with Mort's thinking on the source of ivory in the northlands. Why have elephants when you can have mastodon and mammoth?
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
    Posts: 2590
    From: Ullinois

    Send private message
    Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:32 pm  

    I can see the Vale being like some lost world-hidden valley type place. Maybe Mastodons are there instead of run of the mill elephants. Remember, there is an overabundance of 'dire' critters all over in D&D settings and aren't Mastodons/Mammoths essentially Dire Elephants?
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 255


    Send private message
    Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:37 pm  

    mortellan wrote:
    I can see the Vale being like some lost world-hidden valley type place. Maybe Mastodons are there instead of run of the mill elephants. Remember, there is an overabundance of 'dire' critters all over in D&D settings and aren't Mastodons/Mammoths essentially Dire Elephants?


    Humans= dire halfings

    Ulli-dire humans
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
    Posts: 2590
    From: Ullinois

    Send private message
    Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:42 pm  

    Darn right! Laughing
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
    Posts: 924
    From: Computer Desk

    Send private message
    Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:33 pm  

    Never underestimate a halfling; the most dangerous race those furry feet folk have fooled the powerful and wise alike.

    As for elephants; who knew that would be an exotic creature for the populace of the flanaess. However let us not make it near mythical as a figurine of wonderous power (elephant) does exist so some knowledge of them has penetrated the ivory towers of even the most reclusive mages.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

    Send private message
    Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:33 pm  

    Big Johann the frost giant and his mastodon mount, Smokey from GDQ 1-7. That's right, I said Smokey. Looks like there's mastodons in them thar Crystalmist Mountains!
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 30, 2004
    Posts: 107


    Send private message
    Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:48 am  

    Crag wrote:
    As for elephants; who knew that would be an exotic creature for the populace of the flanaess. However let us not make it near mythical as a figurine of wonderous power (elephant) does exist so some knowledge of them has penetrated the ivory towers of even the most reclusive mages.


    I mentioned in the Greyhawkery post that Gygax's Dragonchess game, played by Gord the Rogue and Cat Lord in Dragon #100, has Oliphant pieces, so the central Flanaess has at least some knowledge of the species.
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
    Posts: 2590
    From: Ullinois

    Send private message
    Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:29 pm  

    I just found in the City of GH boxed set, that Lord Henway's Menagerie has two elephants in its collection. No word on where they were acquired from but they are certainly a rare attraction for the central Flanaess if Henway bought them.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 11, 2009
    Posts: 39
    From: Wales

    Send private message
    Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:38 am  

    If my memory serves me right isn't there a elephant on the cover of the 2nd Ed Adventure Valley of the Mage?
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
    Posts: 2590
    From: Ullinois

    Send private message
    Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:52 am  

    Hrm! I thought smillan was kidding around but yeah yer right Rockhaven, there is! Good point. Vale of the Mage is one of those elusive GH books I never owned when it came out. It shows that no one can know everything on a subject. Time for me to do some reading.

    I also need to ponder on Armitage's ivory price comment. Would that make ivory more or less valuable than gem resources? At a glance I'd say more. But if so, wouldn't PCs go ivory hunting instead? Food for thought.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

    Send private message
    Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:46 am  

    Mort, you know I don't kid about serious things like elephants. Smile
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2788
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:00 pm  

    mortellan wrote:
    It shows that no one can know everything on a subject.


    Mort, you're not talking "Greyhawk" and . . . Rasgon, are you? Shocked

    I mean, there's always one exception to every rule. Wink Laughing


    And to accuse Smillan of "kidding" about something as serious as . . . elephants! Tsk! Evil Grin
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

    Send private message
    Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:33 pm  

    Mort, there's not much elephant content in Vale. Only the elephant on the cover ("I'm picturing an elephant and a drow. It'll be awesome!!!) and 2 elephants statted out and stationed with the guards at a guard-post.
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
    Posts: 2590
    From: Ullinois

    Send private message
    Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:17 pm  

    Smillan: Wow. So the Mage of the Vale has imported two elephants to guard the entrance of his land. Exotic.

    Mystic: As for alluding to Rasgon. You think I have some sort of rip...I mean chip on my shoulder? Naw. It's all good. Razz
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2788
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:26 am  

    mortellan wrote:
    You think I have some sort of rip...I mean chip Razz


    You sent me a "razzberry!" Shocked

    Did I accuse you of having a rip . . . err, "chip" on your shoulder? Confused

    Your Greyhawk self might just end up with an incurable ST . . . err, disease in my next short story! Evil

    Naw, I wouldn't do that to my favorite elven mage -- they might not let me back into the Sage's Guildhall. Wink

    Although that halfling lass does think your kind of cute. Wink Laughing
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

    Send private message
    Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:06 pm  

    Mort, I wouldn't necessarily say "imported". Elephants aren't mentioned in the Plants and Animals section of the module, but the Vale is noted to have many different kinds of apes, bananas (Where there's apes...) and parrots. For a subtropical climate, it is mighty tropical. The stats correspond with the African Elephant from the 1e MM.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2788
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:19 pm  

    Just for you, Mort. Wink

    In the news today:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41087985/ns/us_news-life

    Poor trainer crushed to death! Shocked
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 21, 2003
    Posts: 200


    Send private message
    Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:25 pm  

    How about this?
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20110117/tc_pcworld/scientiststoclonewoollymammothinfiveyears_1
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 01, 2007
    Posts: 699
    From: On a Cape on the East Coast

    Send private message
    Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:34 am  
    Elephant locations and the cost of Ivory

    Well, isn't *this* an interesting thread! And just when I am writing two levels for a campaign that takes a romp into Hepmonaland in my home campaign!!

    At least one obvious source for elephants is Hepmonaland, and in the Scarlet Brotherhood supplement, it has them listed on the Encounter Tables as inhabiting the areas of the Zolteo and Otobo jungles, the Adaro Forest and the Kabreevo Plains. There are certainly others in non-canon areas of Oerik that would equate to Indian elaphants.

    Also, an interesting note, since Armitage and Mortellan mentioned the cost of Ivory ... in 3e resources, I could only find (in the Draconomicon) that items made of ivory fall into the treasure catagory of "Art" and can be just about anything. Their values can range from 1GP to 120,000 GP. The only solid example there is a carved harp with ivory and zircon inlays that averages about 700GP in value.

    The elephants in Lord Henway's Menagerie are a great find, in my book, Mort. As Crag pointed out, they shouldn't be near-mythical, and certainlycitizens of, and vistiors to Greyhawk have undoubtedly seen them. No more rare than say, rhinos; and there's been magical rhino-hide armour around for awhile.
    Another interesting point is that a druid can't turn into anything that he's never seen.
    Player's Handbook 3.5 wrote:
    The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with. For example, a druid who has never been outside a temperate forest could not become a polar bear.
    And if there's no elephants around, there's not too many druids that would be able to shift into one except the Touv or Olman native to Hepmonaland. Although, in all technicality by the letter of the rules, a druid could summon one by 12th level (as per the Summon Nature's Ally spell), unless the DM used rules for summing spells that apply to having to discover a spcific creature before summoning it.

    Great thread, guys, and it's making me think a lot about placement of some of the more exotic animals in WoG.
    _________________
    Owner and Lead Admin: https://greyhawkonline.com<div>Editor-in-Chief of the Oerth Journal: https://greyhawkonline.com/oerthjournal</div><div>Visit my professional art gallery: https://wkristophnolen.daportfolio.com</div>
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
    Posts: 2590
    From: Ullinois

    Send private message
    Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:28 pm  

    Mammoths! Someone got a hold of a clone spell, cool.

    What's neat about that story is it reminds me of a copy of Heavy Metal magazine I bought back @1994 that had an Italian comic in it which featured cloned mammoths. What a novel idea from almost 2 decades ago. I like when life imitates fiction. We used to think we were getting Buck Rogers for a future but now its looking to be more Neuromancer.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 460


    Send private message
    Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:08 pm  

    I can add two (3) more elephantine GH references:

    The 3E Dungeon adventure, "Quadripartite," IIRC, features frost giants in the Corrusks riding a sleigh pulled by mammoths or mastodons.

    Slavers features a halfling Slave Lord agent named Gormadoc, who first appeared in the 1E Rogue's Gallery. His life-long dream, mentioned in both sources, is to own an elephant. The Slave Lords provide him w/ a marble elephant crafted in Hepmonaland.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
    From: Michigan

    Send private message
    Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:33 pm  

    Has someone mentioned the elephant sculptures in the Lost City of the Elders?
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
    Posts: 2590
    From: Ullinois

    Send private message
    Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:22 pm  

    Hmm this brings back memories, yes it's another plane and this means Eli Tomorast has knowledge of elephants. Not too surprising. I would expect any Seeker has seen exotic wildlife along his journies to find magic.

    I recall in MY version of the Lost City (which PCs actually accessed with the Dagger Obelisk), it was a fantastical planar mash-up of Arabia and India with a healthy dash of planescape. There was one NPC I had them encounter who actually rode an elephant in a howdah. They hunted for the paragon of Displacer Beasts. Good times.
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum




    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.41 Seconds