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    Canonfire :: View topic - What WOGH nation owns this area...
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    What WOGH nation owns this area...
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
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    Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:03 am  
    What WOGH nation owns this area...

    One of the members in my campaign is a cleric of Heironious and a Warmaster from Veluna and decided he wants to put his Warmaster Tower in the lands north of the Fals River, bordered to the north by the southern edge of the Yatil Mountains. I do not have any material which references who actually owns that land. It could be Ket, Veluna or even Bissel. Can anyone point me in the right direction for founding out if there are any products already describing that land which I can use? Much Thanks
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 06, 2003
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    From: Torrance, Calif.

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    Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:22 am  

    Admittedly, I don't know either. However, I do have a few ideas that may, or may not, be of use.

    1) Ket, Veluna, and Bissel all claim it for themselves. Depending upon how useful the land is determines how much in the way of resources each country put into controlling it. If it is useful/valuable land, it may be valuable through a) being strategic location(s), b) important minerals like oerthblood spring, mithril, etc., c) there may be something important to a particular religion - St. Cuthbert for Veluna.

    2) One of the nations, or an individual in the nation, sees it as being important. Maybe there is oerthblood springing up in this area that is known to a wealthy individual, who is trying to keep it secret from everyone else. Perhaps there is a bothersome humanoid tribe who has been launching raids into the neighboring kingdoms.

    3) No one claims it and no one cares. This may be the best. It is virgin territory ripe for the picking by the players. If you're interested in having your players play the game of kingdom building. This opens up a lot of challenges, especially from whoever, or whatever is already there and the response by the neighboring kingdoms.

    Those are some ideas.

    The Grey Mouser
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
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    From: Woonsocket, RI, USA

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    Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:26 am  

    Can you give us a Darlene hex number, perhaps? I found quite a bit of territory that fits your description (north of the Fals River, south of the Yatils). The best sources I've found for determining national boundaries (at least pre-Wars) are the regional alignment and resources maps in the middle of the '83 Glossography.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:25 pm  

    I think the OP is referring to the hilly region encircled to the south, east, & west by the Fals, containing roughly 9-10 hexes of land (on the Paizo map).

    This hilly region is known as the Northern Lorridges, and is ruled by gnomes in the name of Highfolk.

    Here are the relevant passages from the LGG:

    "In a succession of battles, Veluna drove invading forces from the neck of the Fals River Pass and Highfolk gnomes defeated Ketite forces in the Northern Lorridges." (p. 33)

    "The southern reaches of the Yatil range, across the Fals River to the north, is sometimes known as the Northern Lorridges; in truth they are part of a separate range, controlled by gnomes for Highfolk." (p. 146)
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:50 pm  

    these are the hex coordinates off of the WOG boxed set (83) map: I5-F5 across the top and 115 along the left.
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:17 pm  

    I think I know where you mean, though the hex rows are read diagonally, not straight across. Having consulted the "Regional Alignment" and "Regional Products" maps in the Glossography, I'd be comfortable calling that area unclaimed wilderness (at least pre-Wars). It seems to me that Veluna's western border is the Lorridges, Bissel's northern border is the Fals River, and Ket is hedged to the south by the Bramblewood Forest.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
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    From: Dantredun, MN

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    Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:46 am  

    DMPrata wrote:
    Having consulted the "Regional Alignment" and "Regional Products" maps in the Glossography, I'd be comfortable calling that area unclaimed wilderness (at least pre-Wars).


    The Highfolk gnomes controlled the Northern Lorridges pre-Wars too, as the LGG reference Robbastard cited is also in the 83 Guide, p50.

    The exception is the I5 hex column of river and grassland (and probably 15 miles on either side) which is controlled by Bissel for about sixty miles north of Thornward; indicated by the Guide's alignment and product maps which show a distinct northern spur terminating at roughly the same latitude as the Cairn Hills peninsula.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:14 pm  

    vestcoat wrote:
    The exception is the I5 hex column of river and grassland (and probably 15 miles on either side) which is controlled by Bissel for about sixty miles north of Thornward; indicated by the Guide's alignment and product maps which show a distinct northern spur terminating at roughly the same latitude as the Cairn Hills peninsula.
    Yeah, I can go with that. Have Bissel's territory include the four plains hexes north/northeast of Thornward (and, of course, the maps are in the Guide, not the Glossography Embarassed ). Post-Wars, of course, I'd assume this would be Kettite land.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:31 am  

    Highfolk at first to me seemed an unlikely master for the gnomes of the Northern Lorridges, but since the gnomes of the lower Yatils swear fealty to that nation I guess it makes sense.
    From the Archclericy of Veluna website Veluna rules the eastern half of these lands as parts of the dioceses of Whitehale and Falsridge.
    Master Greytalker

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    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:58 am  
    Ownership

    National Boundaries are a long and colorful discussion on Canonfire. I, and many others, subscribe to the idea that the boundaries mean very little, except in name. In this idea, most of the land is wilderness or farmland where a kings agent is seen only occasionally. The truth of this varies greatly, depending on the kingdom.

    With that said, there may be no claim, or conflicting claims from all the nations mentioned on this particular square. If the warmaster builds a heavily fortified keep, staffed with a large army, but too far away to worry about, Highfolk may never assert any claim. But if he builds a great keep with only a few guards, they may be interested in dusting off the 1,000 year old claim to the area. Or they may just ignore it as too small to worry about.

    I think it is this that allows GH games to be unique and different. But if you like political intrigue, I definitely think this is the way to go.
    Master Greytalker

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    Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:22 am  
    Re: Ownership

    Anced_Math wrote:
    National Boundaries are a long and colorful discussion on Canonfire. I, and many others, subscribe to the idea that the boundaries mean very little, except in name. In this idea, most of the land is wilderness or farmland where a kings agent is seen only occasionally. The truth of this varies greatly, depending on the kingdom.
    Agreed. On my own modified Darlene map, I've drawn "borders" that are 1–3 hexes wide. Somewhere in that 30–90 mile stretch, the territory of one nation blends into another, and the nature of those borderlands depends on the relationship between the nations. It's not like there's a fence. Wink
    Master Greytalker

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    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:59 am  

    In my game, I have an entire "barony," of the Gran March in the Lortmils. The baron has control and allegiance of the humans in the area, but the dwarvish lords are cordial and polite, but hardly "subject." In many ways he is more like an ambassador or mayor. He has control of the capital of the "Barony," and a few hexes around, but much of the land is actually under the control of others. A similar situation exists in the Rushmoors. The March claims it, but has no control whatsoever.

    Gran March and Bissell have vast swaths of prairie between them that no one wants, except as a buffer. Its very similar to the US Mexican border region for much of our history. It was so barren the governments gladly left the residents to their own devices.

    This is odd for the real world today, but its a field day for gaming. Even if nation A recognizes the characters claim on hex 233, nation B may want to assert a heretofore unspoken "sovereignty."

    I do love torturing PCs with the unexpected.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 21, 2003
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    Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:33 pm  

    Anced_Math wrote:
    I do love torturing PCs with the unexpected.


    A Dm after my own heart.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2695
    From: LG Dyvers

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    Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:52 am  

    In the real world today, the national boundaries between the desert regions of Saudi Arabia, Oman, and Yemen are still undeclared. They haven't discovered oil in that particular region yet, there are no other natural resources (except sand and sun), and the nations have simply agreed not to settle on official boundaries at this point.

    I agree with previous posters who have said that vague boundaries between many of the nations of the Flaness work best.

    SirXaris
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