Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Postcards from the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly
Denizens
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
#greytalk
JOIN THE CHAT
ON DISCORD
    Canonfire :: View topic - Using Saltmarsh from the DMGII
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Using Saltmarsh from the DMGII
    Author Message
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2010
    Posts: 10
    From: Gatineau, QC, Canada

    Send private message
    Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:21 am  
    Using Saltmarsh from the DMGII

    Hi again all,

    Is anybody using, or has used in the past, the section on Saltmarsh in the 3.5 DMGII? I always felt it was ripe with adventure ideas and very well done, and I recently started a campaign in and around the town, as described in the book, and fleshing it out with a few sprinkles of homebrew content.

    More precisely, my campaign will pitt the PCs against the machinations of the cult of Vecna and the Lassiters, and for now Egan Lassiter is acting as a patron for the PCs (they don't know the evil bastard he is) and using them to foil the lizardfolk resistance against the Scarlet Brotherhood in the Hool Marshes (yes, in my campaign, the cult of Vecna in Saltmarsh and the Brotherhood are "allied" of sorts)...which allows me to use the original Saltmarsh trilogy in a slightly updated context, yipee :)

    Lassiter however is letting the cultists of Gra'azt making attempts on the lives of the PCs, following the death of the cult's head daughter (the "Funeral procession" adventure in Dungeon). His reasoning is: they are tools, and tools are replacable.

    Any ideas and feedback on how your campaigns went will be most helpful! And also, is it me or the Saltmarsh setting screams of a possible fantasy version of Innsmouth? :)
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 12, 2008
    Posts: 160


    Send private message
    Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:53 pm  

    I used it quite briefly at the start of my last campaign, but the players never explored it. For reasons too long to get into, Keoland was part of a conquered 'evil empire' that hadn't gotten around to the Sea Princes, and the PCs decided to leave the area lest the Keolanders take interest in them.

    Due to a variety of reasons, we never got back to it, which is a real pity because it is pretty well developed in the DMG2
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
    Posts: 2590
    From: Ullinois

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:00 am  

    Hmm...I just finished running the original Saltmarsh module, but converted to 3.5 edition on the fly. I own DMGII and it never dawned on me to use the Saltmarsh that was in there. Drats.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2788
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:30 am  

    We forgive you, Mort. LOL

    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
    From: Michigan

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:26 am  

    Some previous threads on the subject:

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2181

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1353
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 20, 2008
    Posts: 594


    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:38 am  

    I ran a campaign based off of it. I think it has been brought up here before, though. I am too lazy to seek out the topic right now.

    That said, I think its the Galactica '80 of the Saltmarsh material.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 636


    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:14 pm  

    The DMGII Saltmarsh is a bit too 3e for my tastes and some of the temples feel wrong because they are based solely on core material rather than Greyhawk. I stuck with the original version as amended by later LG stuff. As for DMGII, I changed the temples to be a bit more seasidey and switched the location to Seaton, the regional capital of the Viscounty of Salinmoor. Seaton is close enough to Saltmarsh to cover some of the same themes but it feels like a better fit for a larger, more cosmopolitan town.

    There was an article on Canonfire about intelligence reports form Keoland that also featured some interesting plot hooks, particularly for the Hool Marshes. LG also did an ongoing plot that featured the Black Dragon, Aulicus, known as the Prophet of the Hool, the politics of several lizardfolk tribes (Marshgrove, Fleshroast, Foulwater, and Deathcroak) and the rumoured resurrection of the Lizard King Sakatha. It was quite cool as the Charter of Niole Dra forbids anybody from harming or interfering with a herald on pain of death so the dragon presents himself as the High Herald of Sakatha, not only daring the Keoish to attack a dragon but also to breach their own founding charter.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:18 pm  

    chaoticprime wrote:
    That said, I think its the Galactica '80 of the Saltmarsh material.


    Ouch! Well stated, although I may use some of the map and material as a basis for the town if the campaign ever roams there.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2788
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:08 pm  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    I may use some of the map.


    Never get rid of the maps! Laughing

    There is always a use for those! Wink
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 14, 2005
    Posts: 221


    Send private message
    Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:14 am  

    I personally took photoshop to the DMGII map and rolled it back to 576. I didn't do as much chopping as you might expect, but I did some.

    Here's the link: http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff244/master_mikel/Saltmarsh/Saltmarshcitymap576.jpg

    I also used parts of the NPC list for my 576 game, though mostly so I didn't have to redo them. I started the game in 3.5 and have since moved to 4E, but aside from edition mechanics, not much else has changed. I also extended out all of the adventures. Now, at 7th level, my players are barely a third into U3's fortress.

    I've also had to do significant ad libbing, as any GM does with creative players. For instance my U2 was completely self-made - the PCs captured and parlayed with the Lizardmen aboard the ship. There's an alliance with the lizardmen, especially after the PCs freed their religious center (a temple fortress called the Crocodile's maw) from Sahuagin control - that was their U2. :) I had SO many near deaths with that module - one PC (a goliath fighter-knight) got taken below 0, healed up so he could fight again, and taken back down another 3 times before he stood there, barely alive as the Baron laid at his feet defeated. I don't think there was a shred of healing left in the party, and well over 80% of party resources had been expended (not including HP, taking HP into it, you might be talking 90%). It was an AWESOME fight! :)

    In short, no I don't use the material as presented, but I do cherry pick it quite a bit, as I do all sources. It has its place and bits and pieces can be put together quite well to create an interesting portrait of a fishing town that also does quite a bit of shipping Hool based commodities (from rare drugs/ingrediants to rice and wood). Not enough they are going to get rich, but enough to have a lot of intrigue.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

    Send private message
    Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:23 am  

    That's the right philosophy I think. As a DM, you take anything and everything and make of it what you will. Saltmarsh from the DMG II has plenty of usable material to add to that which was in the original module.
    _________________
    - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
    Posts: 1358
    From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU

    Send private message
    Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:06 pm  

    Having just bought DMG II for the chapter on the later Saltmarsh, I found this on the sacking of Seaton by Dungeon writer, James Jacobs:

    http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19819258/Seekers?pg=4

    "I'm the one who wrote the Saltmarsh chapter for DMG II; the original outline asked for a super-detailed Large Town that could serve as a place for DMs to mine ideas for their campaigns. There werre a lot of choices (including making up a new town entirely) but I chose Saltmarsh primarilly for two reasons:

    1: It had tradition, and was an established D&D location that had never been detailed before.

    2: I had really fond memories of those U1-U3 adventures and figured that a lot of D&D players out there would get a kick out of seeing Saltmarsh's return.

    Anyway, for the background, history, and locations, I did a fair amount of research into the region. (NOTE: It helps to sit across from Erik Mona at work when you're doing research on Greyhawk!) My original thoughts on the raiders of Seaton were that they were an offshoot of the Pomarj slavers who escaped south along the coast after some pesky PCs smashed their operation to the north. They eventually chose Seaton as a place to try to rebuild their power base. Of course, much of this went unsaid in the chapter since Saltmarsh had to not only serve as an updated version of a classic location, but also had to be fairly easy to adapt to other campaign worlds.

    The important thing, though, isn't WHO raided Seaton, but that Seaton was raided and the refugees fled to Saltmarsh."
    END

    Before reading this, my first thought was that the raiders were the SB, but then, considering the time (CY 591?) I figured the reconstituted Slave Lords.

    Q: I've looked around for canon on the raid on Seaton (nothing specific in Living Greyhawk). When was the raid? If it was after CY 580, but before 589, that would rule out the reconstituted Slavelords. I'm not that fond of the idea of the raiders being a breakaway of the original Slavelords. I might consider going with my first hunch, the SB in CY 584.

    Any thoughts?
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2695
    From: LG Dyvers

    Send private message
    Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:22 pm  

    jamesdglick wrote:
    I might consider going with my first hunch, the SB in CY 584.

    Any thoughts?


    You could justify that, but I think it would require a bit of a stretch to explain why the Scarlet Brotherhood, who at that time is doing everything it can to stay 'under the radar' would launch a piratical/slave-taking raid on a village in Keoland - a major naval power - even a small, out-of-the-way, village like Saltmarsh was at that time.

    A off-shoot of the Pomarj pirates that survived the cleansing by the PCs would be much more believable. They could have the power to pull off such a raid and pirates/slavers aren't known for their wisdom. They would be much more likely to ignore the potential for vengeance from the Keoish throne.

    Heck! Maybe their success in this raid was the seed from which the Crimson Fleet blossomed. Wink

    SirXaris
    _________________
    SirXaris' Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SirXaris?ref=hl
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 10


    Send private message
    Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:44 pm  

    I was just reading it myself recently - the text indicates that the sacking of Seaton happened around the same time of the U1-3 modules.

    I had always made the assumption that the original Slave Lords sacked Seaton - it was always vague what attacks were severe enough in the original module to have the surrounding nations up in arms, but not enough for military force. That Salinmoor was quasi-independent of Keoland at that point would've made it a significant target.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
    Posts: 1358
    From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU

    Send private message
    Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:55 pm  

    SirXaris wrote:
    jamesdglick wrote:
    I might consider going with my first hunch, the SB in CY 584.

    Any thoughts?


    You could justify that, but I think it would require a bit of a stretch to explain why the Scarlet Brotherhood, who at that time is doing everything it can to stay 'under the radar' would launch a piratical/slave-taking raid on a village in Keoland - a major naval power - even a small, out-of-the-way, village like Saltmarsh was at that time...


    1) The raid was on Seaton;

    2) ?! The SB was trying to stay "under the radar" by performing coup d'états in the Lordship of the Isles and the Sea Princes, by conquering Idee, Onwall and (briefly) Sunndi, and attacking Irongate and Keoland...


    ?!

    I figured that a raid on Seaton might have been intended to clear the rear before heading for Gradsul.

    blackmyron wrote:
    I was just reading it myself recently - the text indicates that the sacking of Seaton happened around the same time of the U1-3 modules...


    -Where?

    blackmyron wrote:
    ...I had always made the assumption that the original Slave Lords sacked Seaton - it was always vague what attacks were severe enough in the original module to have the surrounding nations up in arms, but not enough for military force. That Salinmoor was quasi-independent of Keoland at that point would've made it a significant target.


    -If the raid was in the CY 577-580 time frame, I'd go with that.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 10


    Send private message
    Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:22 pm  

    p.121 - "Recently, pirates and slavers from the north sacked the nearby city of Seaton, and nearly a thousand refugees flooded the streets of Saltmarsh. At about the same time, several bands of adventurers finished dealing with a large sahuagin threat to the southwest..."
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 31, 2008
    Posts: 75


    Send private message
    Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:36 pm  

    That sounds like a great hook to start up the slave lord modules after U3. (with added DM tinkering) Cool
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 31, 2008
    Posts: 75


    Send private message
    Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:38 pm  

    That sounds like a great hook to start up the slave lord modules after U3. (with added DM tinkering) Cool
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum




    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.34 Seconds