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    Canonfire :: View topic - The builders of the Lost Suss City
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    The builders of the Lost Suss City
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 14, 2002
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    From: Patra, Greece

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    Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:01 am  
    The builders of the Lost Suss City

    As I get no answer from greytalk, I submit my query here.

    I am in a way lost with my research, searching for the builders of the Lost City.

    From AoE we know that the city has ziggurats as temples. Bas-relief carvings decorate the interior walls. The writings on the walls are convoluted, which I interpret that have letters of curved and tortuous windings, and intricate in form and structure. Inside the temple, Gord`s team finds a Tharizdun coin, dated after Little T`s imprisonment, since it sports on the back side the inverted ziggurat Tharizdun symbol. Gellor estimates that interior decor and writtings are not Suloise, and the city is by a number of centuries older than the cataclysms, and migrations.

    The Mesopotamian ziggurats are temple towers consisting of a lofty pyramidal structure built in successive stages with outside staircases and a shrine at the top. The ziggurats of the Lost City have the shrine at a level below the top, and access to it from inside and top.

    Various bas-relief carvings are encountered in Tomb of Horrors, Cairn Hills, the fading land where Farz`Urb luu (?) was initially imprisoned, and possibly other places.

    Who can be the builders of the Lost City?
    Site Theocrat

    Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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    From: WoG 2.0

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    Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:37 pm  
    Lost City

    Tzelios-
    Man, you sure do come up with some doosies. Unfortunately my GH Novels aren't with me to check your stats, but knowing you've likely done your research, I trust what you write.
    I'm unclear, however on your request.

    Are you saying that possibly the Lost City in the Sea of Dust was founded by much earlier race of people than the Suel and they would have been similar to real life Mesopotamians?
    If you're asking if this is true, I'm unsure if there is any factual and printed evidence to back up this theory. However, it is very likely that the Suel, Bakluni, Oeridian and others are not the first race of humans (or other dominate race) to inhabit the Flanaess. This too doesn't have much in the way of factual or printed evidence. However if you are willing to take the comic Vecna: Hand of the Reverent (spelling?) then there is indeed another race of humans, and they celebrate life and remind me of an Earth-like Egyptian group of people. Grodog might be able to better clarify that. This doesn't however signify that they are anything, since in the graphic novel, they worship the One True Path of Pholtus (I can't resist!) which is an Oeridian god, and thus removing the possibility.

    However, taking the Vecna comic (if you can't get it, email me and I'll pick it up ([it's $15 or so] and mail it with my next set of mailings) to heart, then possibly the Oeridians had conquered much of the western region of the Flanaess, and then the Flanaess itself. If this is the case, and part of the decline of the Oeridians due to Vecna's power, then the Suel would be able to take over the Sea of Dust region.

    This is all subjective, of course. And I'm just making it up as I go along. But isn't that how EGG and RJK did it in the first place? They tried to have some cohesion, but not everything fits together. So unless you're willing to make stuff up that fits in-between much of it, then there won't be a concrete answer.

    OR maybe the Coin that Gord finds is a FORGERY! And so is the bas reliefs. Maybe the guy failed his Appraise skill, even though I know they don't often do that in books and novels (the hero always wins), and instead of being centuries later, were indeed just recently created before the cataclysms. This would mean that during the Suel-Bakluni wars, the Suel were going through a "renascence" of sorts. With this renascence, maybe they were adjusting to a different life style, but never had the opportunity to live it.
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    Theocrat Issak
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    Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:06 pm  

    I'll give your query some more thought after I troll through some sources, Tzelios. In the meanwhile, if you want to troll too, here are the relevant Suss references per Jason Zavoda's fabulous index:

    Quote:

    Suss Forest [WD]
    AOE Pg# - 7,30,45,46,52,56,58-60,68,69,73,74,76,78,106,126,150
    158,175,230
    CED Pg# - 113
    COG:GOTF Pg# - 18
    DRG#167 Pg# - 10,11
    DRG#191 Pg# - 68
    DRG#292 Pg# - 101
    DUN#13 Pg# - 3,5
    FTAA Pg# - 21,24,53,54,64,86
    FTAC Pg# - 68,80
    FTAR#11
    GA Pg# - 102,116
    GW:ADV Pg# - 18
    LGG Pg# - 39,40,66,87,88,116,117,119,141
    LGJ#0 Pg# - 5
    LGJ#3 Pg# - 29
    LOG Pg# - 11
    SLV Pg# - 7,43-45,63,84,86-88,121
    TAB Pg# - 55
    TD Pg# - 12,14
    WG11 Pg# - IC
    WGA4 Pg# - 49
    WGG Pg# - 9,14,17,19,22,25
    WGQ1 Pg# - 2,7,9,10,12,13,14,20
    WGR5 Pg# - 90
    WOGA Pg# - 21,31,38,41,42,54,57,58
    WOGG Pg# - 13,IBC

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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
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    Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:42 am  
    Suss Forset, Right?

    Tzelios is talking about the Lost City in the Suss Forest, right? Not the capital of the former Suel Empire in the Sea of Dust. I have not read any Gord books, but the 1983 Greyhawk Boxed set indicates it was a city built on hilltops, in the style of Meso-American cultures, by a contingent of Suel people. Established deeply in the forest, the founders offended the forest in some way. I've read in some account or another that the forest reclaimed the spaces where the city and its offending populace erected their edifices. The same boxed set also reads that the Jewel River got its name from the fact that gems, jewelry and other prized objects of value washed down the river's course. Interesting question - I don't think this concept has been developed beyond the "rumors" above.

    Wow, that Zavoda index is amazing. I've never seen that until today. I found the whole thing at the Harvester's Heros Web site.

    -------- Storm (Don) --------
    Adept Greytalker

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    Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:50 pm  
    Re: Suss Forset, Right?

    Storm wrote:


    Wow, that Zavoda index is amazing. I've never seen that until today. I found the whole thing at the Harvester's Heros Web site.



    Yes, it's a great resource, unfortunately, we have not been given permission to host it.

    Here's the link to it on Harvester's Heroes for those who want to see the whole thing:

    http://www.harvestersheroes.com/uploads/Kagan/Encyclopedia-Greyhawkania-Index.zip
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu May 20, 2004 12:48 pm  
    Re: Suss Forset, Right?

    Storm wrote:
    Tzelios is talking about the Lost City in the Suss Forest, right? Not the capital of the former Suel Empire in the Sea of Dust. I have not read any Gord books, but the 1983 Greyhawk Boxed set indicates it was a city built on hilltops, in the style of Meso-American cultures, by a contingent of Suel people. Established deeply in the forest, the founders offended the forest in some way. I've read in some account or another that the forest reclaimed the spaces where the city and its offending populace erected their edifices. The same boxed set also reads that the Jewel River got its name from the fact that gems, jewelry and other prized objects of value washed down the river's course. Interesting question - I don't think this concept has been developed beyond the "rumors" above.
    -------- Storm (Don) --------


    Excellent, you have a brilliant mind Don! Your explanation of the name of the city is the best I have encountered. Because my stagnant mind, when readind the text, figured that Jewel River was named after the ammount of treasure inside the city. So probably, Jewel was not the name of the city. So dam I am. Thank you.
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    Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:08 pm  

    I just tossed out some hooks to this in my PBeM game, and then quickly went scrambling for info on it! I have the old Dungeon (#13) which has an adventure for this city. The adventure is called the Ruins of Nol-Daer, and it places it in hex J4-104.

    Personally, other than the name, I don't really like it. Not that it's a bad adventure; it's actually pretty cool. I just don't think it feels right for what this place could really be. I have kept the name, but I'm still looking for something else, and I doubt I'll have time to make the city up myself.

    I am considering using Xak-Tsaroth from the Dragonlance books. I have the Atlas of Dragonlance and the map seems just about perfect. I may even have the old 1st ed module around, somewhere.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:24 pm  

    The City is in the Suss is always an interesting topic, even when dredged up in the form of an 8 year old thread. New minds and new thoughts. Let's see what others have done with it. I myself have only made allusions to the city, it not only being a Lost city of the Suloise, but also a much older site linked to the proto-races more than Tharizdun.

    Also, Creighton Broadhurst and Paul Looby wrote a "Mysterious Places: The Lost City of the Suloise" article for WotC (posted on 12/19/2006), which can be found HERE.
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    GreySage

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    Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:01 am  

    I like the idea that it was built by the Cynidiceans. There's a pretty good take on them in 3rd edition's Elder Evils, as well as the original B4.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:40 am  

    I recall a similar thread HERE

    I have always described the Lost City as a place "no man may enter", which is good considering my all-animal game concept is set there (and of course hags are exempt).
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:53 am  

    At one time I shoe horned Dwellers of the Forbidden City in for a campaign. It worked well, and I have always liked the module. Little rough for GH continuity, but my players didnt know any better.
    GreySage

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    Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:53 pm  

    I think "Dwellers" takes place on the far side of the eastern Flanaess, if memory serves (Amedio?), but I agree that it could be used, in a pinch. I've been tempted to use modules in places they normally don't 'fit' merely for the sake of running them. :) For more ruins, there's also "The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan," even though it fits, methinks, further south in the continent (or am I wrong?)...

    -Lanthorn

    p.s. coincidentally, I do have the Gord book in which this hidden city is featured, packed safely in my shed amid a stash of old "Dragon Magazines"
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:31 am  

    Dwellers was to the south, far to the south i believe. But my players didnt know that, so what the heck. The Shrine of Tomachan was too short for my purposes; my players were expecting a city size adventure, and it took several sessions to play through. YMMV
    GreySage

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    Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:20 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    I like the idea that it was built by the Cynidiceans. There's a pretty good take on them in 3rd edition's Elder Evils, as well as the original B4.


    The Cynidiceans are great, but I think that the Suss Forest is a bit too far from any desert for that to be realistically believable. B4 definately puts them in a desert.

    SirXaris
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    Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:18 am  

    SirXaris wrote:
    B4 definately puts them in a desert.


    It does, but it's not really important to the plot. It's just a means of isolating the lost city from the rest of the world.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:50 am  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    I think "Dwellers" takes place on the far side of the eastern Flanaess, if memory serves (Amedio?), but I agree that it could be used, in a pinch. I've been tempted to use modules in places they normally don't 'fit' merely for the sake of running them. :) For more ruins, there's also "The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan," even though it fits, methinks, further south in the continent (or am I wrong?)...

    Anced_Math wrote:
    Dwellers was to the south, far to the south i believe. But my players didnt know that, so what the heck. The Shrine of Tomachan was too short for my purposes; my players were expecting a city size adventure, and it took several sessions to play through. YMMV


    I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City Pelisso Swamp, Hepmonaland

    From HERE. I'll have to see about getting some hex locations added to that feature too, but for now, Dwellers of the Forbidden City takes place in hex Y-109 on the Darlene map. Happy That adventure is classic pulp fantasy, and one of my favorites. Perfect to build upon, turning it into something greater than it is.
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    GreySage

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    Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:42 pm  

    rasgon wrote:
    SirXaris wrote:
    B4 definately puts them in a desert.


    It does, but it's not really important to the plot. It's just a means of isolating the lost city from the rest of the world.


    I gues it would be simplicity in itself to change the covering sand to an enveloping forest and WHAM! B4, The Lost City in the Suss Forest. Happy

    SirXaris
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