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    Canonfire :: View topic - Money Makes the World Go Round
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    Money Makes the World Go Round
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 20, 2013
    Posts: 24


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    Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:39 pm  
    Money Makes the World Go Round

    I'm looking to make merchants and their interests a large part of my campaign, but despite a lot of searching, I'm still missing some critical information. What are the major merchant consortiums and trade groups in the Flanaess? I keep reading about the traffic of goods from one place to another, but I'm not seeing who the players are in this game of shipping things around.

    In addition, I'd like to discuss the methods of getting things from place to place. Maybe I'm missing something, but most of the maps I've seen do not have roads on them. I'd like to know what some of the major roads are, since these will determined some of the flow of goods.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2695
    From: LG Dyvers

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    Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:01 pm  

    As far as roads go, Ivid the Undying provides a description of the Dirawein - an ancient system of roads connecting portions of what was the Great Kingdom.

    The Keep on the Borderlands includes some information on a merchants guild that you can use as a general guideline when including them in your own campaign. I expanded upon that guild in my article on Sir Xaris' desmense, calling them The Witch is Dead, Merchants, Mercenaries, and Adventurers Guild (a reference to Iggwilv, as they originated in Perrenland, and appropriate to mention now as I just returned from seeing Oz, the Great and Powerful Cool ).

    SirXaris
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    From: So. Cal

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    Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:27 pm  

    Also see the maps in The Marklands and Iuz the Evil, which include roads.
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
    Posts: 580
    From: British Isles

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    Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:06 am  

    Interesting question DeepShadow.

    The Baklunish have the Mouqollad Consortium - I can't remember much about them from memory (I think they have an entry in the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer).

    Zilchus and Xerbo are both mercantile gods so their clergy are likely involved in business in that way.

    As for roads, check out the Anna Meyer maps, aside from being great they also show an extensive road network.

    http://ghmaps.net/

    Also, check out the thread on banks. It may give you a bit of inspiration!

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5436
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 11, 2009
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    From: Verbobonc

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    Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:01 am  

    The original Gold Box had a map showing where various resources and trade items originated, though it did not mention to whom they were exported. The Marklands, Iuz the Evil, and Ivid the Undying all discussed in passing the local economies, both imports and exports. Finally, the City of Greyhawk boxed set contianed a passage detailing the origin and final destination of goods passing through the city... I'll look for the pages on these.

    My take on the trade routes in the Flannaess is that most trade uses inland waters (rivers and lakes) where practicable. It would be a cheaper and swifter means of transporting cargo, especially bulk goods (and expains why Greyhawk and Dyvers are so important). Most of the Flanaess have access to a navigable river networks; The Sheldomar, The Nyr Dyv, and the Flamni. The Flamni river system was discussed in dept as well in Ivid. In my conception, most roads are rutted tracks, with some exceptions (pre-war Furyondy, Greyhawk, etc.)

    As far as land travel, it is always more costly, and an inefficient means of transporting bulk goods. I read once that the price of transporting a ton of grain by land doubled the product cost within 20 miles in Roman times, and they had good roads. I would suggets that any truly long range business dealings would be for high value/low bulk products (gems, precious metals, magical components). Also, traders seldom travelled so far, finding it far easier to sell to middlemen in the next kingdom, who repeated the process until a good reached its final consumer... spices were so expensive in Europe not only because they travelled thousands of miles from India to Venice, but because of all of the middlemen along the way.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 20, 2013
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    Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:28 am  

    tarelton wrote:
    The Marklands, Iuz the Evil, and Ivid the Undying all discussed in passing the local economies, both imports and exports.


    Good to know, but I've only got access to the last one so far.Confused

    Quote:
    Finally, the City of Greyhawk boxed set contianed a passage detailing the origin and final destination of goods passing through the city... I'll look for the pages on these.


    This I've got! I'll have a look, but page numbers would indeed be welcome.

    Quote:
    My take on the trade routes in the Flannaess is that most trade uses inland waters (rivers and lakes) where practicable.


    Makes a lot of sense. Of course, it makes my original concept of a land-travel bulk merchant that much more nonsensical...Sad

    Quote:
    As far as land travel, it is always more costly, and an inefficient means of transporting bulk goods.


    Again, this makes sense.

    Quote:
    I would suggets that any truly long range business dealings would be for high value/low bulk products (gems, precious metals, magical components).


    But here we have to inject a fantasy element--why would a merchant in high-value/low bulk items pay 10,000gp to be escorted on a 1-week trip when he could pay 1000 for a teleportation (that's for two spells) or 2000 for a teleport without error? Items like gems can be laded down on a person in huge amounts, so that they don't go over the weight limit, and you can bring extra people carrrying more at little to no extra cost.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
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    From: British Isles

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    Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:41 am  

    I think you should look at it the other way. Why would a wizard, interrupt his spell research or magic item crafting shcedule to cast a spell that bears an element of risk for 2000gp when he could make that money casting other spells with no risk(like Identify) or just sticking to making potions or magic items? Sure you'd find some who would do it but it doesn't seem like a reliable enough option to make it main stream.

    Also - what if you are a merchant who trades in horses, or furniture or something large or bulky. A teleport will have big limits for such a merchant.

    Of course the fantasy / magic element definitely opens up scope for special cases where you can have fun with outlandish ways of trading but I don't think it would ever eclipse overland trade caravans (unless you're running a very high fantasy setting).
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:36 am  

    Even with its system of roads leading to and from the Cairn Hills, it is mentioned (somewhere) that much ore and good are transported by the Ery River, which is both safer and faster. The City of Greyhawk boxed set notes that the Selintan and not the road is the primary means of transportation for goods to and from the city.

    The issue of magic is a good and necessary one. While it is true that most mages would not 'bother' using their spells, especially riskier and higher level ones (such as Teleport, which may kill you), some surely would, particularly lower lvl mages, or those who are invested in a community. Not all wizards are of the bookish sort, or arrogant and sel-serving prigs. The use of even lower lvl spells can greatly benefit the common man, and this includes the transportation of goods. I will list just a few here: Mending, Light, Item, Strength, Levitate, Enlarge/Reduce, Mount, Wizard Lock, etc.

    Among the priesthoods, two come primarily to the forefront who would directly aid the transportation of commercial goods: Zilchus and Fharlanghn. The former is primarily interested in the financial aspect while the latter is invested (pun intended) in the actual movement of people across the Flanaess, for philosophical, cultural, and religious reasons. Where waterways are concerned, Osprem and Xerbo come to mind.

    Priestly magic is in no way to be underestimated. The use of the Travelers sphere greatly augments the movement of people, goods, vehicles, and mounts. I especially love the Lighten Load spell for lessening encumbrance values. Given its long duration and decent area of effect, it makes for a wonderful lower lvl spell among clerics. However, do not discount priestly influence over Weather, the various Elements, and for a few, Plants and Animals. More obvious spells of Combat, Guardian, Protection, and Healing are nice, too, given that there are highwaymen, pirates, humanoids, and monsters that often stalk the wilds, too. In some ways, it far more behooves a merchant caravan to have a few priests traveling with them than even a single wizard.

    Even priesthoods without an overt and direct interest in the transportation of commercial goods could be involved. If the products are to be delivered to their various temples, shrines, and churches, priests of ANY religion could be involved in the protection of such goods and the people who convey them. Furthermore, various religious orders may take direct involvement in the protection of specific goods: Priests of Heironeous (Hextor, Kord, Corellon, Clangeddin, etc) may guard caravans of weapons and armor (or the ore needed to craft them), priests of Pelor may protect caravans of food, water, clothing, and medical supplies, priests of Phyton and Merikka those transporting grains and livestock, etc, etc, etc.

    Hope this all helps,

    -Lanthorn


    Last edited by Lanthorn on Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 11, 2009
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    From: Verbobonc

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    Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:39 am  

    Pages 3 and 4 of Folk, Feuds, and Factions in the City of Greyhawk Boxed set lists merchandise being moved in and out of Greyhawk, along with origins and destinations. Page 45 of the original Guide in the Gold box has a limited list of regional products, and the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer has a more lenght list for each nation.

    One thing to bear in mind is that commodities are less likely to be traded over a significant distance than other goods. Since they are essentailly fungible, this class of goods would only be traded halfway (cost-wise) to the next source of the commodity. Most raw materials and even precious metals and staple food-stuffs would fall into this category. What might be traded at distance are finished goods and non-commodities such as cut gemstones, magical components, books, uniqe foodstuffs (fancy cheeses, wines, etc.), proprietary finished goods and the like.

    Forgotten Realms actually focuses a lot on merchants and trade, at least for background, and has a whole section of the continent dedicated to long distance caravans running around (Western Heartlands). I never liked the way they implemented the concept... way to much of a focus on commodity shipments and the empty spaces were just too empty to support ciites with six figure populations, but that is me. However, incorporating merchants more deeply into the game is a very good idea... after all, the characters are part of the economy as well, and they will have to deal with them eventually.
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