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    Canonfire :: View topic - Before "Queen of Spiders"
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    Before "Queen of Spiders"
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:37 pm  
    Before "Queen of Spiders"

    So I decided to run "Queen of Spiders" supermodule, escpecially as our game is in Sterich. The thing is, my PCs now go to 4th level and I want to run short episode in Istivin, March Sterich's capitol. Probaby they will get 1 level ( to total 5 of them ), so what to put character's with Sterich region before the "Queen" and for 5-8? I read that "Against the Slave Lords" is unofficial opening to campagin, but's in Pomarj, not Sterich or even nerby Keoland. Neutral
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:36 am  

    If you can get them to travel a little, the southern Keoland / Sea Princes region offers a number of possibilities. (Keep in mind these are all 1st Edition modules, so character levels may not track exactly to your edition of choice.)

    UK1 Beyond the Crystal Cave, levels 4–6 (Sea Princes)
    UK2 The Sentinel, levels 2–5 (Sea Princes)
    UK3 The Gauntlet, levels 3–6 (Sea Princes)
    I2 Tomb of the Lizard King, levels 5–7 (Hool Marshes)
    I7 Baltron's Beacon, levels 4–8 (Hool Marshes)

    Then, once the PCs are around 7th–8th level, a number of Greyhawk fans have recommended running S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun (in the Yatils) before the GDQ 1–7 series.
    GreySage

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    Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:37 am  

    Since you are mentioning the Sea Princes region, I will toss out the U series:

    U1: The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh
    U2: Danger at Dunwater
    U3: The Final Enemy


    Also, I think that N1: Against the Cult of the Reptile God is found in the middle of Keoland (Dim Forest region).

    -Lanthorn
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    Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:16 am  

    I will look in to this modules, but also I need couple of in game books about Abyss, demons and maybe Lolth. My PCs found cultist library in Caves of Chaos modul and want to desipher them. I can make-up some random titeles but ould rather used some official items. If nothing will come back, I probably used Book of Vile Darkness transaltion.
    GreySage

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    Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:28 am  

    You would do well trying to locate a copy of Monster Mythology, Manual of the Planes, and any reference guide about planar beings (I use a 2e supplement that has 'souped' them up greatly) to further your goals. The former has a good listing of Lolth's powers as well as the Powers for many other beings (demihumans, humanoids, giants, you name it!) while the latter is absolutely wonderful for information about the Planes, the Abyss included.

    good luck,

    Lanthorn
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    Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:28 pm  

    Lanthorn, you didn't get me - I don't need supplemnts for me as DM to know more about Lolth. I need books in game world, written by NPCs. And I need at least one about Lolth itself, one about Abyss, and one about general evil stuff. For last one I can always use in game copie/translation of Book of Vile Darkness, but still need two about.

    Also, by some wierd coincidance, my players made possible to run them The Speaker in Dreams 3ed adventrues that I have in Polish, so I will use it now, only changing big town of Brindinford location to be based on Davish river in Sterich. It is 5th level adeventure, and my payers have now 4th level, but as with D&D Next playtest - you don't know what kind things will go from there.
    GreySage

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    Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:47 pm  

    Aaaaahhhh...my bad. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Embarassed

    -Lanthorn
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    Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:23 pm  

    Have you looked at the Demonomicon of Iggwilv? It could be a good in-game source for any of the things you described. http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Demonomicon
    CF Admin

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    Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:53 pm  

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    I need books in game world, written by NPCs. And I need at least one about Lolth itself, one about Abyss, and one about general evil stuff. For last one I can always use in game copie/translation of Book of Vile Darkness, but still need two about.


    You could consider starting to leverage the seeds planted via the Tome of the Black Heart (from WG5/Maure Castle), as well as the various articles written by Iggwilv in her Demonomicon: see https://www.google.com/search?q=demonomicon+site%3Acanonfire.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a for some pointers (both pieces written by me and others :D ).
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    Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:57 pm  

    So you proposed to use this:
    *Demonomicon of Iggwilv
    *Tome of Black Heart
    *Book of Vile Darkness

    Yes? And from this what would be most accurate for Lolth info? Demonomicon abriged copy?
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:47 pm  

    You might want to look at the 3.5E book Hoardes of the Abyss. There is also a 3E Dungeon adventure that indirectly involves Lolth that takes place in the Demonweb and a 3E Forgotten Realms adventure involving Lolth. I can't remember the names of the top of my head but for the Dungeon adventure I can reference when I get home.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:49 pm  

    Cyrusalthantas wrote:
    You might want to look at the 3.5E book Hoardes of the Abyss.


    I alredy used a description of Demonwebs Layer in this book as soposed material from Demonmicon on scroll they finded in Caves of Chaos. Made some tweaks to taken PDF and send it to player that read the info... Evil Grin
    CF Admin

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    Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:40 pm  

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    So you proposed to use this:
    *Demonomicon of Iggwilv
    *Tome of Black Heart
    *Book of Vile Darkness


    Of those, the Tome of the Black Heart is probably less useful, and the BoVD may or may not be, depending on your take on Lolth, I suppose: I could see it being relevant to her and her cult.

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    Yes? And from this what would be most accurate for Lolth info? Demonomicon abriged copy?


    I could see info about Lolth appearing in the Demomicon for sure, and perhaps other books, too. There was a good article on spells research that listed a number of in-game tomes in Dragon #82---"Spells Between the Covers" by Bruce Heard---that may also offer useful titles/themes/ideas for books.

    The Necronomicon may also offer some possibilities: http://www.canonfire.com/cfnew/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=142
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:40 am  

    DMPrata wrote:
    Then, once the PCs are around 7th–8th level, a number of Greyhawk fans have recommended running S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun (in the Yatils) before the GDQ 1–7 series.


    Whitch should be first - S4 or WG4?

    Edit: Got my hands on Iggwilv's Legacy, the 3.5ed redux of Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. But it's made for four 11th level PCs. Can used it for party of five 7th level PCs? Ot is it this hard really?


    Last edited by wyrdhamster on Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:54 am; edited 1 time in total
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:54 am  

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    Whitch should be first - S4 or WG4?

    Edit: Got my hands on Iggwilv's Legacy, the 3.5ed redux of Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth . But it's made for four 11th level PCs. Can used it for party of five 7th level PCs? Ot is it this hard really?
    Strictly speaking, S4 happens before WG4, but it doesn't really matter which one you run first. They're two different dungeons in the same general area. I can't help you with Iggwilv's Legacy, though; that's a different adventure.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:04 am  

    DMPrata wrote:
    Strictly speaking, S4 happens before WG4, but it doesn't really matter which one you run first. They're two different dungeons in the same general area.


    Could you mention similiatires or common threads? And mark maybe point out were they are on Flanaess general map?
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:24 am  

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    Could you mention similiatires or common threads? And mark maybe point out were they are on Flanaess general map?
    Both adventures are set in the Yatil Mountains, north of Bissel. While searching for the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth (S4), the party may find a gnome clanhold in the area. At some point in the party's adventures (before, during, or after their time in the Lost Caverns), the gnomes ask them for help with their norker problem (the setup for WG4).
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:42 am  

    Thanks! I will probably go with your seed, as our wizard... excuse me, mage Evil Grin - is after Demonomicon for solving Istivin's Lolth mystery. As there will be Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun maybe I somehow will connect my Black Brotherhood campagin subplot in to this module? But how to give signs of Tharizdun and Scralet Brotherhood involvedment, without uncovering the proper Temple?
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:16 pm  

    DMPrata wrote:
    Both adventures are set in the Yatil Mountains, north of Bissel. While searching for the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth (S4), the party may find a gnome clanhold in the area. At some point in the party's adventures (before, during, or after their time in the Lost Caverns), the gnomes ask them for help with their norker problem (the setup for WG4).


    In Iggwilv's Legacy there is described gnome community named Vale of Sorrows. It's described as once cheerful, but now isolated group, becuase of madness that come to it and drove some of their brothers and sisters away years ago. Could this be the same gnome clan from Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun? This seem possible, but also somehow wrong...
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:22 pm  

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    In Iggwilv's Legacy there is described gnome community named Vale of Sorrows. It's described as once cheerful, but now isolated group, becuase of madness that come to it and drove some of their brothers and sisters away years ago. Could this be the same gnome clan from Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun? This seem possible, but also somehow wrong...
    I expect that's meant to be the same gnome community as in the earlier module.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:25 pm  

    So gnome community is diffrent than this presented in WG4 - maybe becuase of events in module?
    GreySage

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    Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:07 am  

    The gnome community in the Vale are the same demi-humans found in the modules The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth AND The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun.

    -Lanthorn
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    Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:29 pm  

    True the above mentioned gnomes are one and the same, but if you wanted to give your players just a level or so xp before the giant invasion why not send them to Greyhawk city for some big city fun. When they return their home city (Isitvin you said right?) is bubbled and against the giants begins. Or perhaps you could work up a Tharizdun tie using the Stark mounds. They are weathered remains of ancient mountains, populated with gnomes and one of my favorites the "Swordwraiths" -who with a little creative working could be the remains of an old military campaign against Tharizdun(or even for him could be fun). When a level is gained your party could hear of the trouble at home (the bubble) and head into the giants modules. The Tharizdun can of worms opened in the Starks would have to wait til their homeland is once again safe and could be run after (assuming they survive Lloth hehehe!)
    remember old "mercenaries dont die; they just go to Hades and regroup" p32 Greyhawk Adventures
    well just some ideas for you - take what you will

    -GreyMaus
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    Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:39 pm  

    Greyhawk not, but now I understand I plan to make them time travel! Cool You see, I run game in 591 CY and all we talk in-game is that there was 18 years ago Lolth attack on Istivin leaving darkness in it and then, 8 years ago Galmorr invaded with his armies Sterich.

    I didn't read Queen of Spiders, only some begining of it - didn't this campaign describe the event's like those in Istivin attack in 573 CY? Isn't cannonical resolving the adventure GDQ1-7 of 18 years before?
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:43 pm  

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    I didn't read Queen of Spiders, only some begining of it - didn't this campaign describe the event's like those in Istivin attack in 573 CY? Isn't cannonical resolving the adventure GDQ1-7 of 18 years before?
    GDQ 1–7 has some canon timeline problems, conflicting both with T1–4 and the later Liberation of Geoff. The best fit I've seen places the T1–4 / A1–4 / GDQ 1–7 super-campaign from 579–581 CY, just before the Wars.
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    Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:33 pm  

    But does it describe the invasion of Giants with humanoids on game country and showing off Lolth in large city?
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    Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:32 am  

    DMPrata wrote:
    Then, once the PCs are around 7th–8th level, a number of Greyhawk fans have recommended running S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun (in the Yatils) before the GDQ 1–7 series.


    What are reasons to run S4 and WG4 before the GDQ 1-7?
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    Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:19 pm  

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    What are reasons to run S4 and WG4 before the GDQ 1-7?
    ...because they fill the level gap before the PCs are ready for GDQ 1–7 (levels 8–14).
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:18 pm  

    Hey, Wyrdhamster, if you need to beef up the players a little before heading into the Yatils for S4 and WG4, a good adventure; set in Bissel, so that might be a spot in-between Sterich and the Yatils for something to take place; is Vanity, from Dungeon # 93. It's 3.5 and built for 5th level players, but you could probably modify it to 7th level without too much trouble.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:45 pm  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    set in Bissel, so that might be a spot in-between Sterich and the Yatils for something to take place; is Vanity, from Dungeon # 93. It's 3.5 and built for 5th level players, but you could probably modify it to 7th level without too much trouble.


    You come from Seven Heavens with this! I was now coming with solution to make players somehow "teleported" from Istivin to Yatils so we don't spend next 3-4 session on travel and encounters, but with adventure in Biessel it looks more and more promising. Cool

    DMPrata wrote:
    ...because they fill the level gap before the PCs are ready for GDQ 1–7 (levels 8–14).


    But S4 and WG4 are both 7th level adevnetrues, aren't they? And don't they give about 2-3 levels each?

    I'm not complaining, as they both make nice backstory to mine GDQ roll, only making sure I get them.
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    Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:12 am  

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    I will look in to this modules, but also I need couple of in game books about Abyss, demons and maybe Lolth. My PCs found cultist library in Caves of Chaos modul and want to desipher them. I can make-up some random titeles but ould rather used some official items. If nothing will come back, I probably used Book of Vile Darkness transaltion.


    Try this list: http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Greyhawk_literature
    GreySage

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    Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:31 pm  

    Robbastard wrote:
    wyrdhamster wrote:
    I will look in to this modules, but also I need couple of in game books about Abyss, demons and maybe Lolth. My PCs found cultist library in Caves of Chaos modul and want to desipher them. I can make-up some random titeles but ould rather used some official items. If nothing will come back, I probably used Book of Vile Darkness transaltion.


    Try this list: http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Greyhawk_literature


    That's an awesome link, Robbastard! Thanks for bringing it to our attention. Happy

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