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    Canonfire :: View topic - When do the Humanoid gods get involved?
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    When do the Humanoid gods get involved?
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 05, 2013
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    Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:26 am  
    When do the Humanoid gods get involved?

    How many humanoids do the adventurer's have to ice before the humanoid gods get involved? On one hand, I can see that jolly and twisted fellow Gruumsh chuckling as the herd is culled, but when his people cry out for reven...I mean justice, he will frown when it's obvious that there's some adventuring group killing off hundreds of his people. Or does he get involved before that? What's your take?
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:45 am  

    Good question.

    I think the humanoid Powers are held to the same checks and balances among the Gods that has been discussed in previous postings, and have been mentioned in various sources (esp. pertaining to Iuz kicking a$$ and taking names during the Wars...see Iuz the Evil source guide about this and more information). At any rate, basically if one Power intervenes to stymie some action on Oerth, then this disrupts some type of "Cosmic Balance" (it's all very druidic in a pantheonic sort of way) and permits other Powers to step in and intercede. The result would be cataclysmic to the Prime Material Plane...

    The only reason a humanoid Power, Gruumsh for instance, would intervene directly (Powers normally use their mortal pawns...err, clerics, priests, witchdoctors, shamans, paladins, devout worshippers, etc.) would be to check the wholesale slaughter of "His People" or if one of His chief adversaries, say Corellon Larethian or Moradin, did something directly against his own agenda.

    Furthermore, humanoids tend to high a higher fecundity rate than other beings on Oerth (esp. the elves and dwarves) and replace losses faster than their traditional enemies.

    My question to you is, "What is killing off all these humanoids in droves that would cause such a genocidal effect?"

    Even all the losses of conflict on Oerth from such epic battles during the Hateful Wars, the Greyhawk Wars, and numerous other 'exterminations' have been absorbed. Besides, although there are the 'typical' and base stock of humanoids, there are also some atypical representatives who achieve some great skill of arms or power (such as Turrosh Mak, Quij, and others).

    If your adventurers are having too easy a type slaughtering whole tribes of 1 HD orcs, it is high time you introduce humanoids who are fighters, thieves, priests, and even wizards (if permitted) to counterbalance it. I have long debated with my long-time fellow player and DM that humanoids, born and bred in strife, conflict, and the most stringent of Darwinist Laws via survival of the fittest, should have a greater number of fighters (even if only in low levels) in their ranks than most humans and demi-humans who live in comparatively more idyllic lives. I do the same with very primitive, tribal bands of humans, by the way (barbarians, basically).

    To this end, I often have a certain percentage of all my humanoids (randomly rolled usually) with actual character classes to represent this. Most are fighters, with clerics/shamans/priests filling the next highest number, followed by thieves, and finally, a handful of wizard/shamans, if any (but only in larger tribes). This helps give the adventurers a nasty shock at first when they finally cross swords or spells with humanoids who are actually tough and battle-hardened (just as I like them!), cunning, clever, and downright merciless. Many a group of PCs and NPCs have run afoul of my 'vision' of humanoids, and they often give as well as they receive in conflicts. I find the notion of wimp-a$$ humanoids to be a human and demi-humancentric concept that I cannot stomach. If they were so easy to exterminate, then they wouldn't be around in any great numbers in the first place to compete against their traditional demi-human (and human) enemies.

    If you don't have it in your collection, get your paws on a copy of "The Complete Book of Humanoids" as well as "Monster Mythology" to augment and flesh out your humanoids into more 3D foes in your campaigns.

    Hope this helps,

    -Lanthorn
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    Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:16 am  

    Oh I've introduced fighters, clerics, assassins, the whole 9 yards, much to the chargrin of my players in the past. Evil Grin Lately Gruumsh sent a warrior who wore armor etched with the names of the fallen orcs the current group has killed. This made the players 7 kinds of crazy as they felt the orc hero was over-powered (i.e. a challenge). They argued...tomfoolery on my part as they hadn't done anything to warrent a god's wrath. I countered 130+ dead orcs and the defiling of three shrines/temples put the players on the one eyed tyrant's radar. I figured if troles were reversed, some happy human god would send a paladin to right the wrongs orcs had done. Wink
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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    Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:30 pm  

    That sounds about right, although if they ever get too big for a really tough champion the god could always send his avatar; that's apparently not against the pact. But then you could also throw any of a number of god-heroes or demigods beholden to Gruumsh at them first.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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    Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:10 pm  
    Re: When do the Humanoid gods get involved?

    Uptognomegood wrote:
    How many humanoids do the adventurer's have to ice before the humanoid gods get involved? On one hand, I can see that jolly and twisted fellow Gruumsh chuckling as the herd is culled, but when his people cry out for reven...I mean justice, he will frown when it's obvious that there's some adventuring group killing off hundreds of his people. Or does he get involved before that? What's your take?


    -You could turn it around and as "How many humans do the humanoids have to ice before the human gods get involved?"

    Probably quite a few. Wink
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    From: So. Cal

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    Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:10 am  

    ^
    100% that.

    Humans and demi-humans kill humanoids when they are threatened.

    Humanoids kill humans and demi-humans just because they can, or even for the fun of it, and often include torture as part of their cooking preparations.

    I think the humanoid gods are well and truly involved, always. Wink

    Also, the humanoids are not putting up with anything from humans and demi-humans that they don't already put up with among themselves. Humanoids kill more of themselves than anything else will. That is a part of what constitutes "normal" in their brutal societies, and the humanoid gods are all up in that business too.
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 10, 2003
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    From: Harker Heights, TX

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    Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:36 pm  
    Another solution

    Let me weigh in,

    Another thing to consider is that the deities of the humanoids would also grant assistance to their peoples in order to enact revenge indirectly on such an adventuring party. That is, when a party is out and about, trouncing orcs and the like, consider that a warband of orcs, led by a shaman guided by divine inspiration, laying waste to the adventurer's home towns.

    Beefing up individual humanoids to combat the party directly is one thing, but having the party walk through the ruins of their old homes, with their local church painted over with the eye of Gruumsh, the friendly local hedge wizard (who lent them a potion of healing when they were just first level) dead, and any old teachers and friends slain should shake a good group of role players to their core. Especially if they discover it is in retaliation to their own actions.

    If the deities of the goblinoids involve themselves in this manner, their assistance can have a band of raider "commando" orcs travel under ground or through hidden paths to strike in the most unlikely of places (i.e. in the middle of civilized lands). Players who do not consider a town in the middle of civilization at risk may be in for a rude awakening.

    That may make them think twice before indiscriminately slaughtering their enemies.

    O-D
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