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    Canonfire :: View topic - Losing the Reliberation of Geoff
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    Losing the Reliberation of Geoff
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 21, 2010
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    Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:22 am  
    Losing the Reliberation of Geoff

    In my campaign, the giants of Geoff have received powerful reinforcements and I can't see the armies of good gaining the upper hand any more. It's the year 594 and all seems lost.

    The reinforcement of evil have mostly come through the actions of the PCs.

    In the case of a lost war, how should the theatre of war be abandoned? Should be there be peace negotations with the Sakhut or should they just leave Geoff and wait to return once more (after some years) or should they fight to the last man?

    The reason why I'm asking this is that my campaign is not concentrated on Geoff, but some of the events have strongly influenced the war. I'd like a resolution to the war and someone with an insight to the Geoff Campaign (Living Greyhawk?) would be welcomed to advise me.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:34 am  

    If Geoff is obviously lost, those fighting for its liberation will act differently, depending upon who they are and their reasons for fighting in the first place.

    Geoff expatriates are likely to fight to the last man - dispersing into small guerilla bands attacking from hidden locations.

    Mercenaries will not fight in in a lost cause. They will only fight if they are hired for short missions that have a very good chance at success in such a situation as this.

    PCs and other heroic figures may continue to fight as would the expatriates, but they are not likely to fight to the death.

    Other nations are likely to withdraw and establish defensive borders to protect their own nation (Keoland, Sterich, elves of the Dim Forest, etc.).

    Of course, having a growing evil power on your doorstep is an unwanted neighbor, so those nations will be building their own power to counter the growing threat. Eventually, they can be expected to attack (as Furyondy did in its war against Iuz) if the evil next door doesn't attack and overwhelm them first.

    SirXaris
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    Adept Greytalker

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    From: Verbobonc

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    Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:24 am  

    I do not see peace negotiations occurring with the Sakhut for several reasons. Foremost, is of course that the Sakhut are maintaining a level of secrecy regarding their own existence. Entering directly into negotiations would reveal their existence, and the lesser giants would simply not be smart enough to conduct them, or might possibly double-cross them. Also, negotiations would suggest that there is something the humans might be able to trade with the Sakhut for something else. Since the Sakhut's primary goal (from reviewing The Liberation of Geoff) appears to be simply to retain control of it, I do not see why they would feel the need to negotiate in a situation in which they will retain the bulk of Geoff... casualties among their servants are probably not a major concern, and would be regarded as a feature, not a bug of a final campaign. If the Sakhut is winning, there is little need to negotiate for what they will take.

    I also do not see too many Alamos on the part of any of the humans, though a few desperate Geoffites may do so if cornered. More likely, once the neighboring states realize that the game is over, they will attempt to withdraw their forces, and as many civilians as they can, back to their respective frontiers and begin fortifying them. This would not be a simple line of forts either like the Flare Line in Furyondy, but more likely a defense in depth like the Roman miles. The local regions would remain heavily militarized for sometime, and Hochoch would we strengthened substantially. Raids to rescue more civilians and maintain observation of Giant activities would remain frequent, but minor. In the end, the local states would establish a cordon sanitaire around occupied Geoff. The expense of both an extended campaign and subsequent fortification building would probably mean any follow-on action would be a decade or generation away.

    Having said that... what did your players do... I am most interested?
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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    Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:22 pm  

    tarelton wrote:
    ...negotiations would suggest that there is something the humans might be able to trade with the Sakhut for something else. Since the Sakhut's primary goal (from reviewing The Liberation of Geoff) appears to be simply to retain control of it, I do not see why they would feel the need to negotiate in a situation in which they will retain the bulk of Geoff...


    -Enough Danegeld to make up the difference?

    tarelton wrote:
    ... what did your players do... I am most interested?


    -Something brilliant, no doubt. Laughing

    I shall create a new post to pair against this:

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4701
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:31 am  

    Good responses so far, one can always count on CF. Plenty of food for thought...

    Answering Tarelton:
    To put it shortly, they let a demon lord loose in Sterich and he's the current ruler of the March.

    We were playing the Shadows over Istivin campaign, which I highly recommend. I don't want to spoil the story too much (WARNING!), but basically the PCs failed to stop the main antagonist. The reason being that they didn't want to fight him! The plot was mainly about saving the whole March so since they failed, the March was destroyed.

    There are several powerful demons in the March of Sterich, evil humanoids that serve the demon lord and, most importantly, 8,000-12,000 spectres. A single spectre is a challenge to a group of experienced adventurers; thousands of spectres are effectively a world-destroying force and the worst thing Flanaess has ever seen since the Twin Cataclysm.

    The demon lord has a special liking towards giants and has sent emissaries to Geoff. The giants have turned to worship the demon lord and received invaluable help: succubi infiltrators, babau assassins, vrock squadrons and hezrou strike forces. The magical abilities combined with giants' brute force are unstoppable. There was a major event called The Night of Croaking. A succubus had infiltrated a camp of the allied forces, teleported back to the hezrous, advised the location to them and then the hezrous teleported straight on the allied leadership in the middle of a night.

    Moreover, the PCs have refused to help the allied forces. At one point there was an important supply caravan which was meant for the reliberation forces and the PCs had promised to deliver it, but they arrived late and then refused to help. With unleashment of the demon lord and botching the caravan, they have hurt the alliance great deal.
    Adept Greytalker

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    From: Verbobonc

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    Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:27 am  

    Wow... I think that scenario invalidates most of my thoughts... I just figured the Sakhut found some more giants and humanoids. The Sheldomar Valley is toast, barring some sort of epic quest for an artifact that enables divine intervention.

    As for the characters, has a lynch mob formed for them yet?
    GreySage

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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:41 am  

    tarelton wrote:
    As for the characters, has a lynch mob formed for them yet?


    Are they evil PCs, or are they just cowardly? Sad

    SirXaris
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:30 pm  

    SirXaris wrote:
    tarelton wrote:
    As for the characters, has a lynch mob formed for them yet?


    Are they evil PCs, or are they just cowardly? Sad

    SirXaris


    -Or less than competent?

    tarelton wrote:
    ...As for the characters, has a lynch mob formed for them yet?


    -Well, they was never a lynch mob for Robilar releasing freakin' Iuz.

    But there should have been. Wink
    Adept Greytalker

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    From: Dantredun, MN

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    Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:21 pm  

    jamesdglick wrote:

    -Well, they was never a lynch mob for Robilar releasing freakin' Iuz.

    But there should have been. Wink

    For the sake of argument, Iuz's release occurred in the depths of Castle Greyhawk away from the public eye. Robilar DID receive a lynch mob after releasing Zuggtmoy.
    GreySage

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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:57 pm  

    vestcoat wrote:
    jamesdglick wrote:

    -Well, they was never a lynch mob for Robilar releasing freakin' Iuz.

    But there should have been. Wink

    For the sake of argument, Iuz's release occurred in the depths of Castle Greyhawk away from the public eye. Robilar DID receive a lynch mob after releasing Zuggtmoy.


    And, another would have had him after helping Nystul kill Tenser and Otiluke if he hadn't fled to the Bright Desert.

    SirXaris
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    Adept Greytalker

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    Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:09 pm  

    Quote:
    And, another would have had him after helping Nystul kill Tenser and Otiluke if he hadn't fled to the Bright Desert.


    Was it over after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?! I am sure that Sir Xaris is referring to Rary, not Nystul.
    GreySage

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    Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:40 am  

    tarelton wrote:
    Quote:
    And, another would have had him after helping Nystul kill Tenser and Otiluke if he hadn't fled to the Bright Desert.


    Was it over after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?! I am sure that Sir Xaris is referring to Rary, not Nystul.


    Thank goodness for quality editing, tarelton! Laughing

    SirXaris
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    Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:04 am  

    Sometimes I just have to channel Bluto.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:48 am  

    tarelton wrote:
    Wow... I think that scenario invalidates most of my thoughts... I just figured the Sakhut found some more giants and humanoids. The Sheldomar Valley is toast, barring some sort of epic quest for an artifact that enables divine intervention.

    As for the characters, has a lynch mob formed for them yet?


    Not really, the characters died along with the most of the population of Sterich. One of them escaped, only to be assassinated by a Succubus for witnessing a bit too much.
    The demon lord will not destroy the Sheldomar Valley, because he has a good base of worshippers in every corner. His Succubi are distributing the wealth of sacked Sterich and there are plenty of takers. Who'd turn down a pretty lady with a sack of gold? Human sacrifices or not...
    Giants will be holding Geoff as their new Jotenheim and be content with that. This thread has helped me to imagine how the war will end, now that the PCs have sabotaged the allied efforts.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:39 am  

    Any potential for conflict between the demons and the Sakhut, especially if the disgraced players could help bring it about? Possibly a good way of redeeming themselves. I'd love to know the story behind the spectres unless it might tip your players off to something in telling it.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:26 pm  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    Any potential for conflict between the demons and the Sakhut, especially if the disgraced players could help bring it about? Possibly a good way of redeeming themselves. I'd love to know the story behind the spectres unless it might tip your players off to something in telling it.


    There's plenty of potential in having a friction in an alliance of brutes and psychopaths, but my players have decided not to interfere with the war. As players, they hate everything dealing with warfare.

    The spectres are tied to the Shadows over Istivin campaign (SPOILERS!). The demon lord of the story had the ability to bind one person, "the Chosen One", to be his Voice. This Voice had the power to command spectres. As spectres are able to multiply very quickly using their draining powers, taking over Sterich was easy when a carefully laid plan came to fruition. It was the players task to stop this from happening, as it was written in the campaign.

    Through the possessed human, the demon lord is able to maintain a horde spectres where the head of a command chain was the Voice.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:41 pm  

    I never read the full adventure, just mined it for material for my 580 CY Sterich campaign. That's some serious, "you better do good" incentive for a party. Too bad it didn't work out.
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