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    Canonfire :: View topic - Temple of Tiamat?
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    Temple of Tiamat?
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:53 am  
    Temple of Tiamat?

    I am sending a group on a quest to uncover a powerful magic item that is being held in an ancient and forgotten Temple to Tiamat (The Herald of Hell). With that being said, would you expect a "normal" cliche ancient temple or would you expect it to be ornately adorned? I'll put in some round doorways and such to make it a little different, but otherwise, what are your thoughts? I'm pretty old school, so none of this Katy Perry type gaming! <--I don't know that guy Happy
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    Adept Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:49 pm  

    I thought Hextor was the Herald of Hell? Of course, I am just three editions behind at this point. There is a lot of material on what a temple to Hextor would be like in the post Greyhawk wars material, especially Ivid the Undying.

    As for a temple of Tiamat, I am really not sure what it would be like. Were the worshippers humans or dragons? I think in either case it should be built on something resembling a draconic scale.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:58 pm  
    Re: Temple of Tiamat?

    Uptognomegood wrote:
    I am sending a group on a quest to uncover a powerful magic item that is being held in an ancient and forgotten Temple to Tiamat (The Herald of Hell). With that being said, would you expect a "normal" cliche ancient temple or would you expect it to be ornately adorned? I'll put in some round doorways and such to make it a little different, but otherwise, what are your thoughts? I'm pretty old school, so none of this Katy Perry type gaming! <--I don't know that guy Happy

    I'd start with DL14 Dragons of Triumph from the Dragonlance series. I am not a fan of DL in general, but I always liked the layout of the temple of Tiamat in that one - there are some excellent maps you can use as well as some good ideas as for her temple. It also contains a city built around her temple, if you"re so inclined. Its a good resource, if nothing else.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:26 pm  

    Someone drew up a Temple of Tiamat as a pretty old-school dungeon here, with a strong Mesopotamian flavor.

    Here's a temple of Tiamat from the Ghostbusters comic book.

    This page at Wizards.com contains a map of the Altar of Scales, a temple complex devoted to Tiamat and apparently hidden within a city.

    And yes, Hextor is the Herald of Hell.

    I don't know what the hell "Katy Perry type gaming" is, so if anything I've linked to above qualifies, I apologize.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:55 pm  

    rasgon wrote:
    I don't know what the hell "Katy Perry type gaming" is, so if anything I've linked to above qualifies, I apologize.


    Hilarious, rasgon....I was wondering the same thing. Laughing
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:30 pm  

    If it was me I'd consider what type of culture built the temple, what their architecture might be like, and design accordingly. For me, beyond basic themes, it's the worshipers who determine what the temples look like, not the gods. Tiamat just wants your devotion; she doesn't care how many steps there are up to the altar.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:37 am  

    tarelton wrote:
    I thought Hextor was the Herald of Hell?


    D'oh! My bad, my bad. I meant ruler of the first plane of Hell (according to the 1st ed MM?)

    I think I'll have "human" worshipers, but reptilian temple guards (Warhammer Fantasy Lizardmen, here I come).
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:01 am  

    Uptognomegood,


    Quote:
    but reptilian temple guards (Warhammer Fantasy Lizardmen, here I come)


    There is a race of dragonmen in Monsters of Faerūn that might serve your needs very well.

    While I realize it's not a Greyhawk supplement, I see no reason they couldn't be utilized, especially considering the planar element tied to this topic.




    - D
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:45 am  

    Red Hand of Doom has a fully mapped and populated Fane of Tiamat complete with cultists although as I recall most were hobgoblins.

    This location was then updated for 4E in the first 4E Draconomicon.

    Living Greyhawk made Red Hand of Doom canon and placed the adventure in western Sterich so it's technically official GH material. Doesn't really fit the ancient and forgotten part of what you want but could be adapted.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:10 pm  

    Flint wrote:
    Living Greyhawk made Red Hand of Doom canon and placed the adventure in western Sterich so it's technically official GH material. Doesn't really fit the ancient and forgotten part of what you want but could be adapted.


    I was wondering where to place that EXCELLENT module at. Thanks now I know.
    GreySage

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    Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:11 pm  

    electryc wrote:
    I was wondering where to place that EXCELLENT module at. Thanks now I know.


    Here's another thread about Red Hand of Doom in Greyhawk.
    GreySage

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    Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:27 am  

    I'm pretty "old school" as well (2e fan to boot). Here are my ideas.

    To give it a Greyhawk feel, with Greyhawk Power overtures, how about adding Beltar's influence to the temple, perhaps with some of her servants (and/or clerics). Beltar, a Suel goddess, is known to take the shape of a red dragon, and even seeks for her clergy to make pacts or alliances (such as they are with a powerful Chaotic Evil beast of such colossal power) with red dragons (among other extremely deadly creatures). Why not Tiamat? She is, after all, the most powerful of ALL the chromatics. Thusly, perhaps adding a 'Beltarian' flavor to your temple could ground it with Greyhawk roots. Finally, Beltar is known to 'reward' her higher level clerics with undeath, complete with their clerical powers. These undead clergy could serve as permanent guardians to your temple.

    And if you don't want to toss in a dormant drake to your temple, there's always dracoliches (depending upon the power level of your PCs, of course).

    -Lanthorn
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:14 am  

    Well done, Lanthorn.

    - D
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:51 am  

    FWIW, Len Lakofka included Bahamut and Tiamat as "honorary" members of the Suel pantheon. They were to some degree worshiped in the Suel Imperium.
    GreySage

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    Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:50 am  

    Depending on how you interpret alignment in your campaign, there might be a conflict between the chaotic evil Beltar and the lawful evil Tiamat. Tiamat might be more closely allied with Wee Jas (the Suel pantheon is said to be polarized along the chaotic-lawful axis), considering Beltar to be a hated rival.

    On the other hand, maybe Wee Jas's more neutral form of law is anathema to Tiamat's view of universal order and the wild, spiteful Beltar, safely distant in her cave in Tarterus, is viewed as the less aggravating adversary.

    The Earth Dragon worshiped by the Slave Lords might be associated with (or even another name for) Tiamat as well. Slavers presented the Earth Dragon as more of an elemental being or nature spirit, but I think a Tiamat cult is more interesting.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:00 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    Slavers presented the Earth Dragon as more of an elemental being or nature spirit, but I think a Tiamat cult is more interesting.


    I see the Earth Dragon as something the Flan of old may have, if not worshipped, paid some kind of homage too, like asking for mercy from its wrath, and so on.

    But, the Pomarj did experience an influx of Suel at some point in the past. So, it is just as possible a Suel Tiamat cult could have set up shop and either ripped off the Earth Dragon name, or even made the name up.

    Another possibility: When these Tiamat worshipping Suel came to the region, the local Flan they were trying to convert interpreted some story in such a way that they gave Tiamat the 'Earth Dragon' title.

    I'm sure there are other possibilities as well.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:26 am  

    BlueWitch said:

    Quote:
    Another possibility: When these Tiamat worshipping Suel came to the region, the local Flan they were trying to convert interpreted some story in such a way that they gave Tiamat the 'Earth Dragon' title.



    While I stand by my words in this thread, I very much like the idea that your statement above and my theory coexist in the respective Greyhawk locale.

    By which I mean:

    Upon arrival, the Suel presented it as worshiping "The Oerth Dragon - Tiamat".

    I use the bold for emphasis as it's crucial to my point, since it shows the tiny but critical difference between what was said by the immigrating Suel and what was heard by the native Flan.


    Some/many (whichever you prefer) of the Flan just assumed it was their entity but with a different name; unsurprising, since the Suel were foreigners with a different language, already.

    That's my 2¢ on the matter.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:43 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    The Earth Dragon worshiped by the Slave Lords might be associated with (or even another name for) Tiamat as well. Slavers presented the Earth Dragon as more of an elemental being or nature spirit, but I think a Tiamat cult is more interesting.


    Wow, I love this idea. The Earth Dragon as Tiamat has a load of possibilities. Thanks Rasgon but I may have to steal that Wink
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