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    Canonfire :: View topic - Map of Wild Coast city-states?
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    Map of Wild Coast city-states?
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 16, 2014
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    Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:05 pm  
    Map of Wild Coast city-states?

    I love the detailed map of the Bandit Kingdoms (http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=4)! Years back, I always kind of wondered what the distribution of those little states was, where the borders between them typically were, etc.

    That got me wondering, is there any equivalent of that for the little city-states of the Wild Coast for original Greyhawk, ca. 576? Turns out I recently rolled up a character from there, and it would be nice background fleshing-out to have a visual for where the borders are.
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:00 pm  

    Peyre,

    Besides accessing some of Anna's amazing works on the region (highly recommended!), I also suggest you use any of the following maps from the listed sources:

    1) "From the Ashes" has a decent map of the regions of Narwell and Safeton bordering the Welkwood and Gnarleywood. There is also a writeup on the region that I find useful.

    2) "The Slavers" module has a map and associated information.

    3) "The Fate of Istus" has a map and information on the city of Elredd.

    4) The original Greyhawk boxed set has information and a general map on the Wild Coast but it is broad and vague, but offers an overall gist.

    Those are just four references that come up at the top of my head. These are all 1e and 2e sources, and thus, fall under my region of expertise. I am completely out of my element with more recent editions.

    -Lanthorn
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    Besides accessing some of Anna's amazing works on the region (highly recommended!), I also suggest you use any of the following maps from the listed sources:

    1) "From the Ashes" has a decent map of the regions of Narwell and Safeton bordering the Welkwood and Gnarleywood. There is also a writeup on the region that I find useful.

    2) "The Slavers" module has a map and associated information.

    3) "The Fate of Istus" has a map and information on the city of Elredd.

    4) The original Greyhawk boxed set has information and a general map on the Wild Coast but it is broad and vague, but offers an overall gist.

    Anna's work is indeed impressive as all get-out, but it (and, of course) "From the Ashes" are post-Greyhawk Wars. Anna's map did answer my secondary question, what did the area look like after the Wars, so I didn't have to ask that here. But we're adventuring in ~576 so I'm curious about original Greyhawk. I'll check out "Slavers" and "Istus" to see what they have to offer.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:29 pm  
    Elredd

    Wow, great information on Elredd! This will be helpful in fleshing out my character's backstory. "So where're you from, Ranadar?" will get an answer with some substance (though I think I'll have him from another city, maybe Narwell). That should help inspire my kids to think about their own backstories.
    GreySage

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    Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:29 pm  

    For pre-wars information, you will need the original boxed set (primarily) as your source guide, as well as your own imagination. Furthermore, you may find some information about the Wild Coast from the 1e A series (Slavers modules), but most of that revolves around the Pomarj, where they are based (from Highport).

    For the record, I have widely used the Wild Coast as the stomping grounds for my own PCs, and my current (and main) player has a half-elven bard who hails from the Wild Coast while his paladin and a battlemage have tromped and stomped through that region, as well as the Pomarj.

    I am more than willing to share my own ideas, and those that have been co-constructed between my player (who likewise doubles as my DM) and myself, if this would be helpful, or to answer any further questions you may have on the region. Bear in mind, this is my interpretation only and may not gel with what you formulate in your own mind...or campaign. For the record, the Wild Coast holds a 'special' place in my heart, both as DM and player, for all the adventures that can be garnered in that region given its nature. It is aptly named.

    -Lanthorn
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:42 pm  

    Thanks! I do have the boxed set (I'm rereading it for the first time in a very long while), and I'll have to look through the A series.

    Sure, I'd be interested in your fleshing out of the area. Even when making stuff up myself, I like to include details already fleshed out for the area, even if they aren't necessarily canon.

    By the way, does anyone know how Elredd is supposed to be pronounced? My first inclination is that the dd is meant to be pronounced "th" as in Welsh, but I'm unsure.
    Paladin

    Joined: Sep 07, 2011
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    Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:44 am  

    peyre wrote:
    Thanks! I do have the boxed set (I'm rereading it for the first time in a very long while), and I'll have to look through the A series

    By the way, does anyone know how Elredd is supposed to be pronounced? My first inclination is that the dd is meant to be pronounced "th" as in Welsh, but I'm unsure.

    Gygax took a page loosely from Tolkien.. He dabbled in anagrams, and languages, so reasonable to prose that variant.I have applied the Welsh variant as well.
    As to Anna's maps, check her site or her thread here, she also made a pre-war (576CY I think) map


    Last edited by Dark_Lord_Galen on Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:00 pm  

    Did she?? Yes, definitely have to check it out--thanks.
    Paladin

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    Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:20 pm  

    Sorry Peyre, I was trying to answer you on my phone.... now home infront of an ACTUAL screen I can see...

    Check thread Canonfire Anna Map Thread
    &
    Annas Site
    http://ghmaps.net/?s=576
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:46 pm  

    peyre wrote:
    Sure, I'd be interested in your fleshing out of the area. Even when making stuff up myself, I like to include details already fleshed out for the area, even if they aren't necessarily canon.


    Maybe to help me focus my thoughts instead of having me babbling random interpretations from my own campaigns (both as DM and player), you should ask specifics that would help you...

    My player-DM and I have largely run campaigns in the Narwell-Safeton area (in fact, I am currently running his PCs and some NPCs through that very region!) with only sea-faring and adventures further down the coast as far as the Pomarj.

    -Lanthorn
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:38 pm  

    Thanks Dark Lord!

    Lanthorn, I didn't really have anything specific in mind. As it happens though, I was planning to have my character be from Narwell. Anything particular you have fleshed out for Narwell that I can't find online? What the city's like, its relations with its neighbors, etc. Oh, and is its ethnic makeup about the same as elsewhere in the Wild Coast (largely Suloise, with some Flan and Oeridian)?
    Paladin

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    Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:23 pm  

    here is a listing on the Living Greyhawk within WOC site.. on Narwell....
    not sure if it helps a pre-war timeline... though you could reverse engineer it...
    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgmp/20070807a
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:27 pm  

    Marc Tizoc had some wonderful Wild Coast homebrew material for our 3.x games back when I still lived in San Jose, CA. I don't know that he's visited CF! in quite awhile, but I'll poke him on FB to see if he's able to chime in here (he has a long memory of other fan contributions, too, and may be able to suggest others' works from the halcyon days of Greytalk).
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:22 am  

    Very nice, Galen! Fascinating stuff--makes me feel sorry for what poor Ranadar is going to find when (if?) he returns to his hometown someday. This is helping me get into character.

    Ok grodog, that might come in handy too! I'll keep an eye on this thread.
    CF Admin

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    Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:36 pm  

    Thanks to grodog for asking me to view and comment on this thread.

    About a decade ago I started a Greyhawk campaign with some of the PCs guarding a caravan traveling from Elredd to Badwall. For the campaign, I developed the village of Prym in the Barony Avern, around which the adventurers focused on defending the villagers, especially their children, from the machinations of the cursed nobility of the Tower Valaster.

    As the adventures progressed, the PCs discovered a shrine to Incabulous beneath Prym, which was connected to a larger catacomb complex that featured the undead. Also, after contracting mummy rot, the PCs traveled to Badwall, which featured a notable temple of Wee Jas.

    As Allan mentioned, I developed much of the campaign personally, but relying on careful readings of all extant Greyhawk sources, as well as numerous GreyTalk posts and Oerth Journal articles, including: various articles on goblinoid gods (and Raxivort) by Tal Meta, discussions on the Slave Lords featuring posts by Rob Vest and Russ Taylor, an Oerth Journal article on Hextor by Will McPherson, an article on Holy Warriors of Greyhawk by Peter Gourlay and Joe Katzman, and an article 1 Myth and 4 Knights by Samuel Weiss.

    At least, these are evidenced in a computer folder on the Pomarj, which I organized for a brief campaign that I ran prior to the Wild Coast "Fall of Prym" campaign. (My written notes on the campaign are out of reach in storage, so I could only refresh my recollection based on a nine-page document that I retain, which I wrote to narrate the adventures.)

    Reflecting on it, I basically did what Dark_Lord_Galen suggested, "reverse engineering" later sources to accord with the WoG boxed set articulation, with the goal of developing a frontier setting laid atop the ruins of forgotten civilizations, in order to introduce the players to the overall setting, the "grey in the 'hawk," as the old man once wrote ...
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:47 am  

    Very nice--reverse-engineering the area based on a careful reading of what's been published about it already. I always like it when people take care to keep new materials in line with the old. I try to do that myself, but you're apparently much more thorough about it than I am.

    Your personal campaign seems very well put together. Would you say the town of Narwell is fairly similar (in character, inhabitants, etc.) to Elredd? Or maybe the city is somewhat less on edge and has some elvish influence (or at least some tenuous dealings with the elves) being further from the Pomarj and close to the Welkwood and Gnarley Forest?
    GreySage

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    Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:36 pm  

    Interested mapmakers might consider including the domains of Luxor and Karmagia from Dragon #90's article "Playing the Political Game." Karmagia was supposed to be in hex H4-103 on the Darlene map, between the Suss forest and the larger domain of Luxor. Karmagia was rich in gold and attempting to open a trade route with Elredd, frustrated by Luxor's continual robbing of merchant caravans between the two states.

    I think that article was the only mention of those territories.

    Your campaign sounds very interesting, mtg.
    CF Admin

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    Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:36 am  

    peyre, I can't easily access the population figures now, but I dimly recall that they existed for the Wild Coast cities from the WoG boxed set, and I believe that the southern cities were more populated than the northern ones.

    Also, I know that you asked about Elredd, but I developed Badwall more. Reviewing Paul Looby and Creighton Broadhurst's LGH article on Narwell http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgmp/20070807a makes me recall the Suloise influence in the Wild Coast, which I interpreted by siting a significant (for the region) temple of Wee Jas in Badwall, with some vague ideas about her clergy's relationship with the eponymous "bad wall" that surrounded the original city and ideas about the "witchborn," which might be synonymous with 3e's Sorcerer class or might mean something more.

    I don't think that the WoG further specified the racial admixture for the individual Wild Coast cities, but my campaign's allies and antagonists were designed with a conventional medieval background (a la the classic knight riding with pennant on lance on the WoG cover, which I believe Gygax identified as flying the colors of Fax) overlaid (sometimes literally) on old conflicts between the Ancient Suel, Old Oeridian, and Flan peoples who once warred over the region.

    Finally, you're right that I imagined some tenuous dealings with Welkwood olves and high elves from Celene and/or the County of Ulek (Courwood, really). In fact, I think that at least one of the characters (grodog's olven bard Illistūn may have even adventured to Courwood in this or a subsequent campaign). I don't think I imagined Gnarley Forest influence this far south, however.

    rasgon, thanks for the Dragon 90 tip and the campaign compliment. As you know, I once enjoyed greatly playing in our alternate Oerths: it's been a long time now, so it's lovely to see folks continuing to engage the hobby of the imagination.

    I'll try to review the forums regularly and to comment when I can ...
    CF Admin

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    Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:18 pm  

    Welcome back, MTG =)
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:58 am  

    Good stuff, mtg. That's all handy food for thought on this one.
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