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    Canonfire :: View topic - Noncorporal Undead in a Container?
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Noncorporal Undead in a Container?
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:40 am  
    Noncorporal Undead in a Container?

    Hello again. Here's another bizarre question for everyone.

    Is it possible to contain noncorporeal undead in a container, say a box, coffer, chest, etc., (with their cooperation, of course!)???

    I know they can phase in and out of solid objects (through floors, walls, and the like) since they can enter and exit the Ethereal Plane at will. So...is it possible to have them roll or fold up inside a small container for transport?

    Here's the reasoning why I think this is possible. A person, who is fully corporeal, can sit inside a box by tucking his/her arms and legs around his/her body, tucking down his/her head, and fit inside, unless that container is just too small, of course.

    Why couldn't a specter, ghost, shadow, or wraith, having NO hard bones, do something along the same lines, and perhaps to an even greater degree?! This is like how an octopus, still corporeal but without an internal skeleton, can squeeze into very small spaces and objects (like bottles).

    Of course, even though the undead creature has no hard parts, they still have a given volume, so this doesn't mean it can fit into a tiny container (like an ink bottle), but I would imagine it could phase into a much smaller space than a person of similar dimensions.

    Just how small this container can be relative to the volume of the noncorporeal undead, though, is the real subject for debate.

    Suggestions, ideas, comments?

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
    From: Michigan

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    Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:34 pm  

    How many wraiths can dance on the head of a pin?
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 12, 2008
    Posts: 160


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    Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:19 pm  

    Sure. Noncorporeal undead can do anything along those lines the DM wants them to.

    Indeed, one could argue that due to their low physical density they could compact themselves into a much smaller space than their ordinary size would indicate. So if the DM wanted, they theoretically COULD hide inside the inkwell.
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:39 am  

    My concern is that this could get out of hand and be abused to the point of absurdity.

    The noncorporeal undead still have a given volume, after all, even though they can compact themselves into a very smaller space. I am not sure if they can actually roll themselves up like a scroll, but rather see them squeezing themselves into a tighter ball, almost like the octopus, by deforming and consolidating their bodies.

    But perhaps that is not permissible...

    -Lanthorn
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 12, 2008
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    Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:51 pm  

    Unless you have ghost PCs, the DM will suit the level of absurdity (or lack thereof) to suit his game. That's as true for ghosts as it is for anything else.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

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    Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:49 am  

    My opinion....

    You can roll/fold up material. Incorporeal undead are immaterial- there is nothing to roll/fold up. They can't be sucked into something, because only something particulate can be affected that way. Etc. Etc.

    If immaterial undead do have the ability to materialize, they pretty much become as they once were (except for having many added abilities), but they don't become a sheet, made of rubber, lack joints, etc. They don't become semi-material spirits with every freaky ability of every freaky critter, magical or otherwise "just because." They can only do what they previously could; perhaps enhanced by whatever undead abilities they now have.

    What sucks a spirit into a container is a container that is magical, like an iron flask or similar. But that is all about the magic of the flask causing the effect though, and not the spirit now having the qualities of a slime.

    Now, if you want to invoke cartoon rules, well yes, they can do anything you want, like putting a ghost in a teapot, breaking the teapot, and then the ghost is in the shape of the teapot, with eyes blinky blinking, and what not.
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    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
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    Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:34 am  

    I agree they can go pretty much anywhere being incorporal....But I get this ghostbusters like vision of a group of palyers running around with 'an unlicensed nuclear accelerator' on each of their backs
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