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Canonfire :: View topic - Is It Just Me, Or Does Keoland Always Lose?
Is It Just Me, Or Does Keoland Always Lose?
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Mekorig
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Keoland in the Greyhawk Wars part 1 Reply with quote

[quote="jamesdglick"]
CruelSummerLord wrote:


-What treacherous betrayals? There's a hint of that in Uhas' Chronicle, but that's an in game work. I think it's an odd claim that the Houses of Rhola and Neheli (adherents of the benevolent Jascar and Lydia respectively) would have been good during the Suel Imperium (quite a challenge), suddenly become bad guys as soon as the malign Imperium ended, then revert to benevolence a few decades later.



Sorry for the off-topic, but i found this very interesting. Where is stated?
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rasgon
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject: Re: Keoland in the Greyhawk Wars part 1 Reply with quote

Mekorig wrote:
Sorry for the off-topic, but i found this very interesting. Where is stated?

The idea that the houses of Rhola and Neheli worshiped Jascar and Lydia respectively is from the Oerth Journal #1 timeline. Not WotC canon, but widely used in the community.

Tavish I was a worshiper of Kelanen, though (see Treasures of Greyhawk, page 51, where his descendant Jeon II calls him "Derik Drakkonheart" in order to avoid spilling family secrets to the PCs). This fits with Living Greyhawk Journal #4 (page 17), which states that many members of the House of Rhola are followers of Kelanen.
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Mekorig
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: Keoland in the Greyhawk Wars part 1 Reply with quote

rasgon wrote:
Mekorig wrote:
Sorry for the off-topic, but i found this very interesting. Where is stated?

The idea that the houses of Rhola and Neheli worshiped Jascar and Lydia respectively is from the Oerth Journal #1 timeline. Not WotC canon, but widely used in the community.

Tavish I was a worshiper of Kelanen, though (see Treasures of Greyhawk, page 51, where his descendant Jeon II calls him "Derik Drakkonheart" in order to avoid spilling family secrets to the PCs). This fits with Living Greyhawk Journal #4 (page 17), which states that many members of the House of Rhola are followers of Kelanen.


Roger. found it very interesting. In my current campaign i created a couple of (extintc) Suel Houses, one following Lydia, and other following a dead sepent godess. Will end with the off-topic now.
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jamesdglick
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Keoland in the Greyhawk Wars part 1 Reply with quote

Mekorig wrote:
... Will end with the off-topic now.


-Well, if the nature of Keoland's ruling houses is an issue, I'd say that who they tend to worship is on topic. Cool

rasgon wrote:
...The idea that the houses of Rhola and Neheli worshiped Jascar and Lydia respectively is from the Oerth Journal #1 timeline. Not WotC canon, but widely used in the community...


-IIRC, it was in the timeline. Was it originally mentioned in the timeline in Dragon magazine (mid 1990s) or so? Did Len Lakofka write that?
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rasgon
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: Keoland in the Greyhawk Wars part 1 Reply with quote

jamesdglick wrote:
-IIRC, it was in the timeline. Was it originally mentioned in the timeline in Dragon magazine (mid 1990s) or so? Did Len Lakofka write that?

You're thinking of Roger E. Moore's articles "Legacies of the Suel Imperium" in Dragon #241 and "The Orbs of Dragonkind" in Dragon #230, which had some nuggets about ancient Suloise emperors. "The Orbs of Dragonkind" confirmed the Neheli had once held the throne, but Emperor Inzhilem II of the House of Neheli-Arztin, as it was named then, was a worshiper of Wee Jas (at least primarily) rather than Lydia. We aren't told who his successor, Ubrond Thrideen of House Neheli (the partial house of Arztin had been extinguished in the meantime, along with Inzhilem II), worshiped.

Oerth Journal #1 was released in 1995. Dragon #230 was 1996 and #241 was 1997.
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heychadwick
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: Keoland in the Greyhawk Wars part 4 Reply with quote

Osmund-Davizid wrote:
In the final analysis of the Greyhawk Wars, it is not clear how much combat Keoland actually saw. One of the big mysteries is what did the massive force mobilized by the Treaty of Niole Dra do while in the lands of Furyondy. It is recorded that some of the Ulek forces peeled off and returned to their homelands when the Pomarj invaded, but other details of the northern war are missing (that may make a wonderful article here on CF).


I generally think that the southern forces (headed by Keoland) were pretty much the bastion against Iuz and the Horned Society forces (or were they just all Iuz forces at this point?). This allowed Furyondy to do all the rest (counter attack through the Vesve and lift the siege of Chendle). Without having Keoland and the other forces holding off the primary thrust of the forces of evil then you couldn't get much else done. How many Furyondy forces were left intact at this point in the war? I'm sure the foreign help was what allowed all the counter attacking to actually take place and break the stalemate.
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jamesdglick
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Keoland in the Greyhawk Wars part 4 Reply with quote

Osmund-Davizid wrote:
In the final analysis of the Greyhawk Wars, it is not clear how much combat Keoland actually saw. One of the big mysteries is what did the massive force mobilized by the Treaty of Niole Dra do while in the lands of Furyondy...


-I thought the booklet in Greyhawk Wars implied that the keoish et al helped stop the Ketites from pushing on to Veluna (which makes sense). Of course, a few might have helped out further north.

EDIT: I meant "...stop the Ketites from pushing on to Veluna, not Furyondy, although I guess that would be true, too.


Last edited by jamesdglick on Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Osmund-Davizid
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:58 pm    Post subject: Great Thread Reply with quote

This is a great thread! It exemplifies what I liked about Greyhawk in general and Canonfire in particular:

that each of us is using just little bits of published information to create whole histories! That way, even for a commercially published setting, there is so much individual tailoring that can vary from person to person.

In some other published settings, there would be six modules, seven supplements, a book tie-in, and an advertising campaign to cover this subject. Whereas all we have in Greyhawk is snippets here and there. From those small passages, I can go one direction with it and someone else can go another way. And none of it would get superseded by a ton of published materials. In a way, the fact that Greyhawk was not TSR's most heavily supported campaign was a selling point for me.

Anyway, that may be the topic for another thread. I like where we are discussing this topic, so let's keep the discussion going.

O-D

P.S. Nothing befuddles King Skotti! Long live his Peerless Majesty!
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