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5e conversion of Barrier Peaks - comments encouraged

 
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Kirt
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: 5e conversion of Barrier Peaks - comments encouraged Reply with quote

I am converting Barrier Peaks for a 5e game run over Roll20.

I have looked at Micheal Mifsud's "Expedition to the Parrier Peaks Conversion Notes",

as well as

Todd Bergman's "Classic Adventure Module Conversion - Expedition to the Barrier Peaks"

They are certainly useful, but neither of them are completely suitable for my purposes.

I will be posting as I go - comments encouraged.
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Kirt
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject: Arrival (original) Reply with quote

Arrival
Show Handout: Outside the Cave (was player handout 3)
Load General Outdoor Map
Load Audio File Mountain Pass
Begin tracking time.

Quote:
The rocky mountainside is before you, with stunted vegetation clinging wherever it can. At first glance, it is just like any mountainside you have seen for days. A moment’s pause, however, reveals more. Here and there among the natural rocks, from tiny pebbles to huge slabs as large as city walls, is worked stone, carved stone, sections large and small that are perfectly flat, not cracked or angled. Someone - dwarves? stone giants? - has worked sections of the mountain, shaping them and giving them form. These sections go from ground level to over three hundred feet up the side of the mountain. Who can say what lies within - a fortress? A subterranean city?


Perception check on general area 10+ wrote:

Careful inspection reveals no arrow slits, no windows, no chimneys - but there are two doors! The larger of the two is at ground level and can easily be approached on foot. It is some fifteen feet across and just as high, with the area of worked stone wall beyond it adding another five or ten feet on each side. The door is closed, with the door itself of stone identical to the wall in which it sits.

Above, some 200 feet up the side of the cliff face, is a smaller door, perhaps a third the size of the lower one. That door is open, and the darkness beyond the open doorway suggests that it leads deeper into the mountain. Is this the “unoerthly cave”? No path or roadway leads to it. It looks like a scrabble up the cliff face would allow access to it, but it will not be easy - there are several sheer surfaces that will need to be climbed.


Survival check (advantage mountains) specifically looking for tracks 10+ wrote:

The tracks about are only those typical for the mountains - goats, the occasional mountain lion or bear spoor. None are particular fresh. None are humanoid.


Investigation of lower door, Check 10+ wrote:

The lower door appears to be without handle, hinges, or any other mechanism of opening. It is recessed several inches back from the wall itself, but fits in its frame so flush that not even a paper-thin crack is present anywhere around the margin.

But here is something odd - touching the door, and the wall, the dust comes away - there is not stone beneath, but something else! Vigorous rubbing reveals that it is metal underneath, some kind of hard, gray metal like iron or steel and yet not recognizable. Both the door and wall are made of this.

Further, if this is not carved...it is beneath the mountain’s stone! Indeed, you can shift a few smaller rocks and find more of the metal wall underneath. Is it possible that the entire section you are seeing is one huge metal wall, though now mostly buried under rock - from a landslide, or an earthquake, or deliberate design? If just the parts you see are metal, it is as much metal as any of you have ever seen in one place. If the whole side of the mountain is metal...it is more metal than you knew existed in the world.

Add to player journals "wall metal" handout.


To climb up to the upper cave safely will require a DC15 survival roll.
Non-Proficiency, or proficiency but not in Mountains, gives disadvantage.
Use of rope, hammer, and pitons allows advantage.
Two people working together allows +5 to help.

Once a route has been set with rope, others may substitute an acrobatics or athletics check in place of survival.

Failure on the Survival (acrobatics, athletics) check results in a fall and 20 points of bludgeoning damage, reduced to 10 with a DC15 Dexterity save. Critical failure on either the Survival check or Dexterity save results in 40 points of bludgeoning damage.

As people arrive outside of cave, move them onto Map Unoerthly Level 1
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Last edited by Kirt on Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Cebrion
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
To climb up to the upper cave safely will require a DC15 survival roll.
Non-Proficiency, or proficiency but not in Mountains, gives disadvantage.
Use of rope, hammer, and pitons allows advantage.
Two people working together allows +5 to help.


A few notes on checks.

Survival checks are about finding food and water, finding one's way/tracking, and knowing about natural hazards and how to deal with/avoid them. They have nothing to do with any actual climbing, other than perhaps knowing that, if you climb an icy mountain, you should use pitons and crampons and rope up so as not to die when doing the actual climbing. The actual climbing though would be an Athletics check. Using a rope to climb would be a great advantage Wink, and so using a rope should probably just give Advantage to further climbers, not allow other characters to use an unrelated skill like Acrobatics to do something they shouldn't be good at in the first place. As to two characters up the mountain already helping out, their Strength stats could allow them to simply haul a character up without needing to roll, based on their their wight limit. This isn't Conan lifting up a giant stone door or anything. Players have to pick and choose character skills for a reason. If they don't pick a particular skill, it isn't that character's forte, so they may need others to help them (which is normal). Still, simply getting into the place shouldn't be a difficult task, so if everyone fails then you might instead just say, "You exhaust yourself spending the day trying to climb up to the doorway. Perhaps tomorrow you will have better luck." (roll random encounters). :evilgrin:

"Investigating" the lower door seems a lot like what a rogue would do when "investigating" a chest for taps, which is a Perception check. Granted, these two skills would seems to bleed into one another just a bit: one is about noticing something and knowing its relevance due to one's background (i.e. a rogue doesn't need an Investigation roll to deduce what the tripwire they noticed is for); the other is about deducing the relevance of what has already been noticed ("The victim was killed with iocaine powder. The herbalist wouldn't know of such things, but the alchemist would! Dun-dun DUNNN!"). Besides, based on the text, it doesn't seem like Investigation would do much of anything other than lead to a conclusion of, "That's a lot of metal I noticed!" As a rule of thumb, Investigation has to do with information gathering, research, and deductive reasoning, while Perception has to do with noticing things. I would therefore make the door bit a Perception check, as no real investigating is going on other than moving rocks to reveal more metal; without any epiphany occurring.

Otherwise, it all looks good.
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Kirt
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cebrion wrote:
Quote:
To climb up to the upper cave safely will require a DC15 survival roll.
Non-Proficiency, or proficiency but not in Mountains, gives disadvantage.
Use of rope, hammer, and pitons allows advantage.
Two people working together allows +5 to help.


Survival checks are about...knowing about natural hazards and how to deal with/avoid them. They have nothing to do with any actual climbing. The actual climbing though would be an Athletics check. Using a rope to climb would be a great advantage Wink, and so using a rope should probably just give Advantage to further climbers, not allow other characters to use an unrelated skill like Acrobatics to do something they shouldn't be good at in the first place.


I agree with your sentiment here, and think perhaps most of this is just about conceptualizing the set-up, and me being more explicit.

The initial climb up to the cave is not about strength - it's not that far up. It is about finding a safe route, knowing which rocks will support weight and which will shift, plotting in advance a path that will allow a safe ascent. Thus it is very much a Wisdom-based Survival check, as choosing the route is based on avoiding natural hazards, and not what you call "actual climbing".

Once a line is set and a character simply has to physically haul himself up the rope without having to choose a safe route, then it becomes "actual climbing" with a Strength-based Athletics check.

My own campaign has a low-strength monk, and I often allow her to take an Acrobatics check rather than an Athletics check, if I feel that there are both Strength and Dexterity based solutions to the same problem. For example, climbing the rope with Athletics would be a power-based climb like a gym rope climb, all upper-body strength. Climbing with Acrobatics would be more like an actual rock-climber - reaching from ledge to ledge, balancing, using the rock face itself to support their weight rather than dangling from the rope.

Cebrion wrote:
Still, simply getting into the place shouldn't be a difficult task, so if everyone fails then you might instead just say, "You exhaust yourself spending the day trying to climb up to the doorway. Perhaps tomorrow you will have better luck." (roll random encounters). :evilgrin:


I agree that simply getting to the upper cave shouldn't be difficult. Although I set the initial DC at 15 (Medium), I expect that most parties venturing into the mountains will have at least one character with Survival (Mountains) and will have brought mountaineering supplies. A DC15 check with advantage is not that hard. For those parties not so equipped, at the level indicated for Barrier Peaks, they ought to have access to some type of magic option such as levitation, flight, spider climb, rope trick, etc.

However, upon reflecting on your comments, I think I should drop the subsequent climbing check to DC 10 or 12. Once the rope is set, that should be easier than charting the initial route.

Cebrion wrote:
As to two characters up the mountain already helping out, their Strength stats could allow them to simply haul a character up without needing to roll, based on their their wight limit.


For the two people working together, that was meant for the initial route selection, as in two climbers, both with Survival (Mountain), setting the route together - literally under the rule for "working together", but yielding a +5 because they presumably already have advantage from using mountaineering gear.

I hadn't considered two strong characters simply hauling others up the rope once they are at the cave entrance, but I agree once they are in position that can just be assumed without rolling.

Cebrion wrote:
As a rule of thumb, Investigation has to do with information gathering, research, and deductive reasoning, while Perception has to do with noticing things. I would therefore make the door bit a Perception check, as no real investigating is going on


I parse Investigation vs. Perception as follows: When a player asks "What do I see?" or "Do I notice anything out of the ordinary?" that is a Perception Check. When a player actually tells me what they are looking for, that is an Investigation check. For example, I will allow a high Perception check to note the presence of a secret door, even if the player was not specifically looking for one. But once the door is noted, it will likely be an Investigation check to find the means to open it, and only if the player states that is what they are trying to do.

With respect to the door, I should have made it more clear that the Investigation roll was when a player asked whether it could be opened. I was assuming that they would discover the metal in the course of Investigating it.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: Arrival (revised) Reply with quote

ARRIVAL
Show Handout: Outside the Cave (was player handout 3)
Load General Outdoor Map
Load Audio File Mountain Pass
Begin tracking time.


The rocky mountainside is before you, with stunted vegetation clinging wherever it can. At first glance, it is just like any mountainside you have seen for days. A moment’s pause, however, reveals more. Here and there among the natural rocks, from tiny pebbles to huge slabs as large as city walls, is worked stone, carved stone, sections large and small that are perfectly flat and nearly vertical, not cracked or angled. Someone - dwarves? stone giants? - has worked sections of the mountain, shaping them and giving them form. These sections go from ground level to over three hundred feet up the side of the mountain. Who can say what lies within - a fortress? A subterranean city?

Perception check on general area at 10+ wrote:

Careful inspection reveals no arrow slits, no windows, no chimneys - but there are two doors! The larger of the two is at ground level and can easily be approached on foot. It is some fifteen feet across and just as high, with the area of worked stone wall beyond it adding another five or ten feet on each side. The door is closed, with the door itself of stone identical to the wall in which it sits.

Above, some 200 feet up the side of the cliff face, is a smaller door, perhaps a third the size of the lower one. That door is open, and the darkness beyond the open doorway suggests that it leads deeper into the mountain. Is this the “unoerthly cave”? No path or roadway leads to it. It looks like a scrabble up the cliff face would allow access to it, but there are several sheer surfaces that will need to be climbed.


Survival check (advantage mountains) specifically looking for tracks 10+ wrote:
The tracks about are only those typical for the mountains - goats, the occasional mountain lion or bear spoor. None are particularly fresh. None are humanoid.


Perception check on lower door, 10+ wrote:

Here is something odd - touching the door, and the wall, the dust comes away - there is not stone beneath, but something else! Vigorous rubbing reveals that it is metal, some kind of hard, gray metal like iron or steel and yet not recognizable. Both the door and wall are made of this.

Further, if this is not carved...it is beneath the mountain’s stone! Indeed, you can shift a few smaller rocks and find more of the metal wall underneath. Is it possible that the entire section you are seeing is one huge metal wall, though now mostly buried under rock - from a landslide, or an earthquake, or deliberate design? If just the parts you see are metal, it is as much metal as any of you have ever seen in one place. If the whole side of the mountain underneath the rock debris is metal...it is more metal than you knew existed in the world.

Add to player journals "wall metal" handout.

Investigation Check directed at opening the lower door, 10+ wrote:

The lower door appears to be without handles, hinges, or any other mechanism of opening. It is recessed several inches back from the wall itself, but fits into its frame so flush that not even a paper-thin crack is present anywhere around the margin.


The rocks of the mountainside that cover the wall of the ship are scree that has fallen from above, and none are firmly in place, although a few are now joined to each other via plant roots. Characters who begin to climb up the mountainside can be told that they can feel large rocks shifting under their weight and small ones being dislodged and tumbling down. They should now surmise that climbing to the upper cave will be a treacherous affair, requiring careful selection of a route that will safely support the characters' weight.

The climb itself is relatively easy, requiring a DC 10 Athletics check, with advantage if the character is using a previously secured rope, or a hammer and pitons as they go. Failure on this Strength check just means the character cannot progress further and must climb back down for a short rest. The character will only fall on a critical failure, resulting in 10 points of bludgeoning damage.

However, if a safe route is not found before climbing, on any ascent (whether successful or not) the lead character will cause a rockslide, endangering him or herself and anyone underneath, including those at the base of the slope whom the DM deems sufficiently close. Characters may attempt to avoid the slide with a DC 15 Dexterity save, with advantage if they have a secured rope, spider climb, or Acrobatics proficiency, with disadvantage if they are encumbered, and with automatic failure if they are heavily unencumbered. A character that succeeds on this check may continue climbing without further incident. Failure to avoid the rockslide results in 20 points of bludgeoning damage, or 40 points on a critical fail.

To find a safe and stable route to the upper cave will require a DC15 survival roll. Characters not proficient in Survival, or whose Proficiency is not in Mountains, will be at disadvantage.

Use of rope, hammer, and pitons allows advantage on the Survival check.

Two people working together, both proficient, allows +5 to the Survival check of the better of the two.

The ability to fly, levitate, or spider climb while looking for a safe route, will allow anyone with Survival (Mountains) to automatically find one, and will give advantage to anyone without this proficiency.

Characters may think to try a route on the metal wall only, since this cannot shift and slide under them. As it turns out, this is too hard for pitons to be hammered in, but someone with spiderclimb can automatically ascend safely there, even without a Survival proficiency.

If at least two characters have attained the cave entrance, they may haul others up with rope tied about them with no Strength check required, and although such a character may still cause a rockslide they will not be affected by it.


As people arrive outside of the cave, move them onto Map Unoerthly Level 1
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My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI


Last edited by Kirt on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:14 am; edited 6 times in total
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Cebrion
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The initial climb up to the cave is not about strength - it's not that far up. It is about finding a safe route, knowing which rocks will support weight and which will shift, plotting in advance a path that will allow a safe ascent. Thus it is very much a Wisdom-based Survival check, as choosing the route is based on avoiding natural hazards, and not what you call "actual climbing".


You are reading way too much into the Survival skill. A Survival [Mountains] check would inform characters that some areas are of loose shale, and what signs point to a route being particularly dangerous (which might require further checks; even at disadvantage), but more importantly what route would be the safest. The actual climbing requires an Athletics [Climb] check - the characters just never have to deal with what could have been a more dangerous route because the character with Survival [Mountains] skill has forewarned them, and so they avoid the hazard altogether. The example of quicksand under Survival does not mean that the quicksand is avoided altogether, as in characters are able to circumvent the quicksand due to a Survival check, but that they are forewarned of the perils of quicksand and how to proceed carefully so as to not stumble blindly into it. If and when they do find some quicksand though, and it bars their path, they will then need to use magic or some other skill to bypass it (climbing trees to swing over it by ropes would be Athletics, and using branches like uneven bars and balancing while moving along branches would be Acrobatics).

A mountainside is not a natural hazard to be avoided. It is a natural obstacle to be traversed, just as is a river, a chasm, etc. Patches of loose rock on a mountainside are a natural hazard. Icy patches on a mountainside are a natural hazard. Rapids, undertows, and riptides are natural hazards. Quicksand is a natural hazard. A Survival check can bypass being ignorant of these things, and so then find a safer route, but the obstacles still need to be climbed, swam, or crossed, meaning an Athletics check (most of the time). A successful Survival check just means that characters aren't likely to be making their Athletics checks at a Disadvantage in most cases, and maybe even will be rolling at Advantage and/or with a bonus, but they don't get to avoid the task of overcoming the obstacle altogether though.

"It looks like a scrabble up the cliff face would allow access to it, but it will not be easy - there are several sheer surfaces that will need to be climbed."

A Survival [Mountains] check is what points out the above information. The Athletics [Climb] check is what actually gets the task done, and is what the above literally says needs to be done. I would think that "...will need to be climbed." could not be any clearer, short distance or no.

Survival isn't some sort of crazy climb, fly, walk-on-water, do whatever skill. The Survival skill can help make life easier for characters, but it doesn't solve the problem of obstacles. You empower this skill to the level you are, and you utterly denigrate the other skills. You'll have Rangers or Rogues with Survival [Cities], telling you to shove it when you ask them to make any Athletics [Climb/Jump/Swim] or Stealth check when it comes to climbing up to rooftops, jumping gaps between roofs/balconies/whatever, swimming the sewers/cisterns or blending in with crowd to avoid capture by the city guard, because doing so is just "avoiding the natural hazards" of their chosen terrain.

Sorry for the fixation, but this one just bugs me. Laughing Survival, as a single skill, already manages to cover a ton of stuff. There is no need to make it do more. I hope somebody else weighs in, but keep it coming. I'll keep it shorter next time.

On to another topic...

Due to all of the unknowns in this adventure, Investigation will no doubt be an often used skill, but if it isn't used well...

"The wizard points the oddly shaped metal device at the paladin, and presses the golden stud. A ray shoots out...[DM rolls some dice]...the paladin glows... and then disappears! Magic!"

[DM hands paladin's player a secret note.]

THE PALADIN HAS BEEN VAPORIZED, BUT THERE IS
THE ADDED CONSOLATION THAT YOU WILL BE
CONTROLLING THE DEATHBOTS SHOWING UP IN
RESPONSE TO THIS UNAUTHORIZED WEAPON USE. Evil Grin

Also, you will want to reference Volo's Guide to Monsters. Here is a link to the table of contents/*index of monster stat blocks* (if you don't have the book already): http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/Volos_TOC.pdf

Some critter stats in there will be useful.
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Last edited by Cebrion on Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Kirt
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cebrion wrote:
A Survival [Mountains] check would inform characters that some areas are of loose shale, and what signs point to a route being particularly dangerous (which might require further checks; even at disadvantage), but more importantly what route would be the safest. The actual climbing requires an Athletics [Climb] check - the characters just never have to deal with what could have been a more dangerous route because the character with Survival [Mountains] skill has forewarned them, and so they avoid the hazard altogether.


Upon some reflection, I think I understand what you are getting at, and agree that the Survival check for discovering a safe route should not be allowed to replace the Athletics check for making the climb.

I have revised my entry above reflecting this.

Also, thanks or the suggestion about Volo's guide.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject: The Open Door (original) Reply with quote

The Open Door
The cave mouth opens into a finished room, 8 feet deep, 20 feet wide, and 10 feet high. The far wall has a vertical line from floor to ceiling down its center. All of the surfaces - floor, walls, ceiling - are of the same strange wall metal as outside, completely featureless and flat. A heavy layer of dust and dirt is on the floor, but there are no tracks apparent.

When the last PC enters the cave, the door at the far end slides silently open, revealing a much larger space beyond.

While you are distracted by reacting to the opening inner door, the door to the outside has closed silently but firmly. You are now sealed inside. Examining the closed door behind you, now more like a wall, you find that it has the slightest degree of curvature, as if it were the inside of a large circle.

Load Audio File The Hidden Core

The deeper interior of the cave is a large, dark chamber. It is sixty by sixty and has three tunnels out; across from you, to the right, and to the left, all aligned at precise angles. Down the tunnel in front of you there are doorways visible; you cannot see down the other tunnels from your current location. In the center of the chamber there is an odd circular tube or support column that runs from floor to ceiling. While most of the floor of the cave is quite flat and solid, there appears to be textured walkways running from the tunnels to the tube.

Show handout: Vertical Tube
Begin making wandering monster checks

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject: Wall Metal Handout Reply with quote

WALL METAL HANDOUT

Description and Notes
This is a smooth, dull gray metal, cool to the touch. It is at least as hard as iron or steel. It is as smooth as if it was cast rather than hammer-forged, although the sheets would imply a mold far larger than a forge-building, for no seams or joins are visible across vast expanses. The doors, for example, appear to be single pieces.

DM Notes
The metal is a space-age alloy with no Earth analog.

Experimentation may find that the metal is as light as aluminum but harder than steel and will not be damaged or even scratched by normal weapons or pitons.

It is non-conductive of electricity but rapidly conducts and dissipates heat and has a melting temperature above anything the PC's have access to. Use of fireball-intensity heat near it will not damage it, but a much larger area than the fireball itself will feel warm to the touch for several minutes afterword.

Magic weapons will affect interior walls approximately as a normal piece of iron would be affected by a normal weapon (scratches and dents, perhaps a small hole from something like a pick), but the energy fields that protect the exterior hull and the structural support framework between decks will prevent them from being harmed by even the most powerful magic weapons, or magic, including disintegrate.
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