I'm working on a Saltmarsh campaign circa CY 576, and have a few questions regarding locations in the Viscounty of Salinmoor as depicted an Anna's awesome map:
1) Dun Mounds is found in Jay Scott's module JS1, Horror in the Huuls, which I do not presently own. What about Nine Oaks and Maidenstone Keep - do those locations also come from that same module? If not, does anyone know where one might find more info on those locations? Don't think I saw them mentioned in any LG triad material, but I might have missed them.
2) On Anna's map, Bale Keep is placed west of the Lizardfolk lair from U2, and hence in the coastal marshes between the Dunwater River and the sahuagin lair. In the Hool Marsh Protectorate section of the Keoland Gaz in LGJ#1 (excellent work, by the way), Gary Holian writes, "Tavish IV attempted to guard the kingdom's southern frontier with the marshes by constructing a chain of small forts in the 460s CY, but most of these edifices have long since been abandoned as indefensible, save Bale Keep near the border with Salinmoor" (pp. 18-19, emphasis added). Yet the map of Keoland that appears within the inside back cover of LGJ #1 shows Bale Keep well within the borders of Salinmoor, apparently east of the lizardfolk lair/Dunwater River and due west of Saltmarsh, right at the edge of the hex where the dry lands meet the Hool Marshes.
Is anyone (Gary?) able to confirm whether the LGJ text or map are correct with regards to the placement of Bale Keep? The text description makes it sound like it should be on the Hool Marsh Protectorate side of the border, perhaps west of where Dun Mounds has been placed on Anna's map.
I recognize all the other locations, which are either from LG scenarios (Ob Noigui), Tomb of the Lizard King, Baltron's Beacon, Evil Tide, or the Razing of Redshore (Dungeon #92).
And yes, I realize that it's my game, I can place things where I want or omit them altogether... but I can't help but be curious about author's original intent when it comes to stuff like this.
I think that what the text might mean is that Bale Keep is along the Hool Marshes/Salinmoor border as opposed to the Hool Marsh Protectorate/Salinmoor border.
From what I gather, in 576CY any Keoish territory south of the Dreadwood (Salinmoor & the County of Eor) was pretty much considered hinterlands and left to its own devices. The Hool Marsh Protectorate as seen in 591CY wasn't really a thing with the Marshes being thoroughly untamed which is why the County of Eor fell to the hands of lizardfolk.
In 576CY I see the territory of the Viscountcy of Salinmoor technically extending beyond the boundaries shown in the LGJ map to include the hexes between the Dreadwood & Hool Marshes meeting a narrow border with the County of Eor. The reality would be that this western territory is practically abandoned due to the half-hearted rule of the Secunforths and upon the establishement of the Hool Marsh Protectorate is officially included within the Protectorate and not Salinmoor.
I think that what the text might mean is that Bale Keep is along the Hool Marshes/Salinmoor border as opposed to the Hool Marsh Protectorate/Salinmoor border.
From what I gather, in 576CY any Keoish territory south of the Dreadwood (Salinmoor & the County of Eor) was pretty much considered hinterlands and left to its own devices. The Hool Marsh Protectorate as seen in 591CY wasn't really a thing with the Marshes being thoroughly untamed which is why the County of Eor fell to the hands of lizardfolk.
In 576CY I see the territory of the Viscountcy of Salinmoor technically extending beyond the boundaries shown in the LGJ map to include the hexes between the Dreadwood & Hool Marshes meeting a narrow border with the County of Eor. The reality would be that this western territory is practically abandoned due to the half-hearted rule of the Secunforths and upon the establishement of the Hool Marsh Protectorate is officially included within the Protectorate and not Salinmoor.
I generally agree with your interpretation.
That said, the section on the Viscounty of Salinmoor in LGJ #1 (p. 16) states:
"The land and its environs are often described as gloomy, helped in large part by the warm mists which waft off the nearby marshes south of Bale Keep."
The indication that there are marshes to the south (rather than west) of Bale Keep, combined with the quotes in my previous post, strongly suggest that Bale Keep is actually further north than its present location on both Anna's map and the Keoland map in LGJ #1 -- perhaps even as far north as the spot that Maidenstone Keep occupies on Anna's map (makes sense that they would have constructed a keep west of Burle on the dangerous "road" to County Eor).
I'm also surprised that a road traversing the heart of the Dreadwood from north to south has been included on Anna's map. I seem to remember GVDammerung making an argument for it many years ago, and the LG triad may have had CY 591+ scenarios also involving a road through the Dreadwood, but that just doesn't seem to jive (IMO) with the text from the Guide to the WoG, or the section on the Dreadwood Preserve in in LG #1:
"Those small portions of the Dreadwood contained in the Barony of Grayhill and the Duchy of Gradsul, near Sanduchar, are the only ones regularly logged and hunted by humanity. Incursions from the Yeomanry across the Javan and into the southwestern wood are still common, but the rest of the southern and central woods, where the thick canopy can often blot out the daytime sun, is virtually trackless." (LGJ#1, p. 18)
Hmmm yeah that does make the map location seem less plausible. I suppose a hex represents a 780 square mile area so the marker for Bale Keep on the map is only an approximation, if the Keep isn't directly on the coast then there would be marsh south of it but it still makes less sense than saying the mists drift off of the marsh *west* of the keep.
I think you get easilly get away with moving the keep up to the NE corner of that hex.
Alternatively, even if there were a mile or two of marsh below Bale Keep southerly prevailing winds might account for the mist drifting from the south not west. A stretch I know but a possibility to try and mesh the text and the map.
There could be marshes to both the south and west of Bale Keep, but the mists themselves come from the south because that is the direction of the coast, and the weather is dominated by moisture moving in off of the sea. That is certainly the case in my neck of the woods (SoCal) where the fog reliably rolls in from the sea. The land heating faster in the day creates onshore currents that override the prevailing wind directions and bring moist air in from the sea.
I also assume that the marshes to the west form a very wide border for Salinmoor, and the Keep is set back from the actual political boundary on land that is reliably dry. Patrols from the keep don't even try to penetrate the marsh during the wet season, but only go on scouting trips at the height of the dry season when it is easier to travel and the biting insects are fewer.
In my own game the Dreadwood road exists, but as a remnant from safer days. It becomes more dangerous and overgrown the farther south one tries to travel, and connects to the ruins of post migration Suel cities, equivalent to the lost city of the Suss. _________________ My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI
There could be marshes to both the south and west of Bale Keep, but the mists themselves come from the south because that is the direction of the coast, and the weather is dominated by moisture moving in off of the sea. That is certainly the case in my neck of the woods (SoCal) where the fog reliably rolls in from the sea. The land heating faster in the day creates onshore currents that override the prevailing wind directions and bring moist air in from the sea.
What you're saying about coastal mists being blown inland from the south makes perfect sense, Kirt.
That said, I'm not fully convinced that's what Gary had in mind when he wrote the sentence about "the warm mists which waft off the nearby marshes south of Bale Keep." Either way, doesn't really matter in the end. It's all academic.
Looks like I'll have to ask on the Discord server or the Flanaess Geographical Society Facebook group what people there might know about Maidenstone Keep and Nine Oaks.
Looks like I'll have to ask on the Discord server or the Flanaess Geographical Society Facebook group what people there might know about Maidenstone Keep and Nine Oaks.
Many fine people contributed to my search for answers over at the Flanaess Geographical Society Facebook group on Facebook, including Jay Scott and Anna Meyer.
Thought I'd share Anna's reply, in case someone else might have similar questions in the future:
Anna Meyer wrote:
Both seems to be from LG. This is what I got from a compilation of Keoland LG material.
Authority Figures: Gregor the Great (Fg10, CG), retired half-elven adventurer.
Important Individuals:
Maidenstone Keep is a fortified demesne situated on a low hill just off the Longspear Trail. The keep is owned by the famous half-elven adventurer, Gregor the Great (Fg10, CG). Gregor inherited the keep and the surrounding lands when the former Castellan died in 580 CY. The lands north of the keep are sparsely populated and untamed and the keep maintains a sizeable garrison , and regular patrols, to both protect the local farmers and travellers on the Longspear Trail from the depredation's of humanoids from the nearby Hool Marshes and Dreadwood.
Nine Oaks (hamlet): Leadership conventional; Alignment LN; Population: 260 (Human 77%, Elf 13%, Halfelf 9%, Half-orc 1%, Other 1%); GP Limit: 100gp; Assets: 1,300gp.
Authority Figures:
Important Individuals:
This small community lies at the foot of the Terraces, a region of gently rolling, forested hills. The surrounding countryside contains some of the most fertile land in the province, fed by the Janustrem River. It is a sleepy little village, with only one tavern, the Pitcher and Pitchfork. Local farmers trade some produce here rather than take it all the way to Burle, but most of the excess harvest goes to the markets of Burle or Saltmarsh.
The village is considered the westernmost settlement in Salinmoor. The Longspear Trail continues northwest to the village of Kendra (see the Dreadwood Preserve).
I clearly have holes in my LG Keoland collection.
Anyhow, thanks again to everyone who contributed to this discussion/search - what an amazing community.
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