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    Canonfire :: View topic - What modules make a classic campaign?
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    What modules make a classic campaign?
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 114
    From: Charlotte, NC

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    Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:58 am  
    What modules make a classic campaign?

    Hello All,

    I DM occasionally for some friends....WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED IN GREYHAWK !!!! When I asked them about this, they had always associated the most annoying features of DragonLance with Greyhawk. Now, I am older then most of them and grew up on classics like Keep on the Boarderlands and Lost Caverns of Tsocanth. I want to bring the joy of Greyhawk to these guys. What modules or adventures should I use?

    I was thinking that I would start them off with pre-Greyhawk War stuff. There are a lot of old, classic modules out there for them to get the feel of things. I figure after this runs it's course, I could always start a 2nd campaign that involves the Greyhawk Wars. Either continuing that or after that, I can start another adventure that takes place in the world as it is today.

    What I am asking is what is (in your opinion) the best modules to run them through? I will need lower level stuff to start them off, mid-level to grind away them, and then exciting high level stuff to round it off. I'm mostly asking for the first campaign, which would try to have mostly the classic GH stuff.

    Thanks in advance.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
    Posts: 933
    From: Woonsocket, RI, USA

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    Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:20 pm  

    Well, the easy answer is T1-4 Temple of Elemental Evil, A1-4 Scourge of the Slave Lords, and GDQ1-7 Queen of the Spiders. That saga will take your PC's from 1st to 14th level over two or three years of game time.

    WG8 Fate of Istus is an interesting, but shorter, option, as is WGR1 Greyhawk Ruins.

    There's also N1 Against the Cult of the Reptile God, U1 Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, U2 Danger at Dunwater, U3 The Final Enemy, UK2 The Sentinel, UK3 The Gauntlet, UK1 Beyond the Crystal Cave, UK6 All That Glitters..., C1 Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan, S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, and WG6 Isle of the Ape. That loosely connected series should take your PC's from 1st to 13th level or so, although you may need to throw in a couple of other adventures before WG6 -- S1 Tomb of Horrors and S2 White Plume Mountain should definitely be worked in if at all possible!
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 19, 2003
    Posts: 116
    From: New York City

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    Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:02 pm  

    In Dungeon #116, when a panel of 'experts' ranked the 30 greatest adventures of all time, 7 of the top 10 were explicitly Greyhawk, and the remaining three (Keep on the Borderlands, Desert of Desolation, Ravenloft) could easily be worked into a GH campaign. Your players have truly been deprived!

    Given the option, I'd run a pre-Wars campaign; I think most posters here play in the current 3E, post-Wars world, I'm different in that regard. As you say, this gives you the events of Wars to fall back on if things get dull or your PCs are looking to take the campaign in a different direction.

    Either way, if they're starting at first level and have never played the Keep before, I'd run it as a starter to boost them up a few levels, then get down to business - Temple of Elemental Evil. There's an easy tie-in from there to Scourge of the Slavelords, which I've always thought was an underrated adventure (it's only #20 on the experts' list). Personally, I might run Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun in between the two, although it would necessitate a bit of travel.

    After Scourge, they should be ready for a bit of fun; White Plume Mountain works nicely here (again, requires travel, but by this point they should be used to their services being in demand). Then I'd drop the mother of all adventures on them - Queen of Spiders. Frankly, I feel badly for anyone who has played D+D and never been exposed to ToEE or Queen. To my mind, those are the two greatest adventures of all time, and nothing else is close.

    Post-Queen, I'd recommend Greyhawk Ruins (another adventure I think is vastly underrated) and/or another classic, Tomb of Horrors.

    Well, that's a few years of top-notch campaigning right there. I'm sure others will have lists that are quite different, but I don't think you can go wrong with any of those. I envy you your virgin Greyhawkers! Whatever you run, have fun. They're in for a treat.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 11, 2003
    Posts: 161
    From: The Nexus

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    Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:03 pm  
    Re: What modules make a classic campaign?

    heychadwick wrote:
    Hello All,

    I DM occasionally for some friends....WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED IN GREYHAWK !!!! When I asked them about this, they had always associated the most annoying features of DragonLance with Greyhawk. Now, I am older then most of them and grew up on classics like Keep on the Boarderlands and Lost Caverns of Tsocanth. I want to bring the joy of Greyhawk to these guys. What modules or adventures should I use?

    I was thinking that I would start them off with pre-Greyhawk War stuff. There are a lot of old, classic modules out there for them to get the feel of things. I figure after this runs it's course, I could always start a 2nd campaign that involves the Greyhawk Wars. Either continuing that or after that, I can start another adventure that takes place in the world as it is today.

    What I am asking is what is (in your opinion) the best modules to run them through? I will need lower level stuff to start them off, mid-level to grind away them, and then exciting high level stuff to round it off. I'm mostly asking for the first campaign, which would try to have mostly the classic GH stuff.

    Thanks in advance.


    I would definately go for a pre GHW campaign to get started and give your players the feel of the setting. I'd start in Greyhawk itself, since the GreyHawk Boxed set has a well defined city setting for your players to cut their teeth on. The adventure cards range in difficulty from low to high level adventures, and would make great starts to the campaign. Let your players meet some of the major players in the setting world to give it color. I'd pick a tavern that becomes their "haunt", their version of Cheers where "everyone knows their name." Tavern starts for games is cliche, but IS still valuable as a place for contacts, relaxation, and character development. IMC, we often gather at the Whistling Fish.

    The city makes a great starting out point for many adventures, such as explorations of the Cairn Hills. You could easily use the Diamond Lake article in the latest issue of Dungeon, set it in Pre GHW and run classic modules in between installments. Greyhawk Ruins are right next door, and good for the occasional foray, especially if you want them to obtain something specific for other adventures in other areas. And meeting characters like Valdarese Sharn will be useful if you run the Greyhawk Wars later.

    As for the classic modules, I'd go with the adventure cards from the Boxed Set, like I said, Diamond Lake in Dungeon, plus:

    A1-4 the original Slave Lords series
    T1 Villiage of Hommlet
    C2 Ghost Tower of Inverness
    S2 White Plume Mountain
    S4 Lost Caverns of Tsocanth
    U 1-3 the Saltmarsh series (tho a bit distant will give some scope to the Flanaess).
    G1-3 the Giant series.
    L2 The Assasin's Knot

    Those are, IMHO, the best of the best classic modules.

    Although classic, I'd avoid D1-3, too dungeon crawl. The Giant series, with a little work, you can involve with the surface world to make the series more relevant to the players lives. I'd only run D1-3 if you intend to follow up with Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits, which is pretty high powered stuff. S3 I'd avoid if you don't want technology in your world.

    S1 Tomb of Horrors would be great to run if your players like puzzles, but it is a character killer and as you probably already know has to be carefully managed. I'd still run it, but later in the campaign.

    My GM is in the process of running every canon Greyhawk adventure for our group. It's taken well over two years, but its been a worthwhile effort. I run occasionally, and have run the few supplements he hasn't bothered with, so by the time we end the campaign we'll have probably gotten through most of it Happy

    Theala
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 26, 2001
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    Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:34 pm  

    T1 was written with introducing new players to the World of Greyhawk in mind, so the Temple of Elemental Evil would be where I suggest to start. A common follow up is the slavers series, but I find that players who have completed the Temple are a bit too high level for the adventures. After the Temple, White Plume Mountain makes a nice change of pace from the mega-dungeon the party just completed. Next would come the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. Follow those with Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, then the GDQ series, Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure, Tomb of Horrors, and Isle of the Ape.
    Alternately, you could just run a very old school campaign, and just use Greyhawk City/Ruins area. Include EX1 & EX2 in the dungeons, and adventures like Ghost Tower of Inverness, White Plume Mountain and the Maure Castle material are all in the area. If you go this route you can also use Isle of the Ape like it was originally written, as part of a larger Greyhawk Dungeons campaign.
    Scott
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 114
    From: Charlotte, NC

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    Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:22 am  

    Excellent suggestions! Thank you for the input. It looks like the T series is the best to start with. I admit that I will have to get my hands on the City of Greyhawk stuff. I don't own it. I can always throw some of that in after the Temple.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 11, 2003
    Posts: 161
    From: The Nexus

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    Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:44 am  

    heychadwick wrote:
    Excellent suggestions! Thank you for the input. It looks like the T series is the best to start with. I admit that I will have to get my hands on the City of Greyhawk stuff. I don't own it. I can always throw some of that in after the Temple.


    You can get the City of Greyhawk Boxed Set on eBay fairly reasonably right now. Prices for Greyhawk stuff on eBay have dropped in the past couple of months.

    Theala
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 12, 2001
    Posts: 188
    From: Hanover Park

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    Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:41 am  
    Recycling ;)

    Here's a top 20 list I put together for my own messageboard. It only considers modules/adventures published for D&D/AD&D up through 1987. Note a strong presence of Greyhawk modules or modules easily adapted to Greyhawk...

    1. S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth (1982)
    2. A3 Assault on the Aerie of the Slave Lords (1981)
    3. T1 Village of Hommlet (1979)
    4. I6 Ravenloft (1983)
    5. EX1 Dungeonland (1983)
    6. B5 Horror on the Hill (1983)
    7. G2 Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl (1978)
    8. T2-4 Temple of Elemental Evil (1985)
    8. X4 Master of the Desert Nomads (1983)
    9. B4 The Lost City (1982)
    10. B3 Palace of the Silver Princess (1981)
    11. B2 Keep on the Borderlands (1981)
    12. A2 Secret of the Slavers Stockade (1981)
    13. G1 Steading of the Hill Giant Chief (1978)
    14. EX2 Land Beyond the Magic Mirror (1983)
    15. DL1 Dragons of Despair (1984)
    16. "Baba Yaga's Dancing Hut" (Dragon, 1983)
    17. UK6 All That Glitters... (1984)
    18. "The Twofold Talisman: Part 1" (Dragon, 1983)
    19. "Citadel by the Sea" (Dragon, 1982)
    20. I3 Pharoah (1982)

    ~Scott C.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 26, 2001
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    Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:23 pm  

    None of the D series, especially D3, or G3 made the list?
    Scott
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:30 am  
    Woo! Feedback!

    Nope, not my list.

    SPOILERS ON CLASSICS?

    G3 is a problem for me because the king is encountered right up front! The PCs go in the front doors fully loaded -- there's no way the king is surviving that encounter if the PCs don't want him to. Then the rest of the adventure feels anti-climactic. Plus, if run after G1 and G2, there's just not enough that feels different about G3.

    D1 is for the most part too easy, with the troglodytes merely annoying players instead of posing any sort of challenge to them. The only challenges are the lich, who'd rather not fight to the death anyway, and the possibility of getting surrounded by 30 trolls, which is still not a PC killer unless the PCs are low on spell support (I once had a TPK because the party was completely out of offensive spells by the time they got to the trolls).

    D2 suffers much the same as D1 does -- low hit die monsters are no threat to powerful PCs unless massed in huge numbers -- and once they're wiped out the shrine is relatively defenseless and the PCs can loot at will or until boredom sets in.

    D3 is a slaughterhouse, and one I can't recommend because it birthed drow fandom.

    ~the other Scott
    Master Greytalker

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    Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:24 am  

    Wow. I must say they played rather different in your experiences than in mine. Maybe your characters were higher level or better equipped than when I played in or DMed those modules.


    D1 and D3 are really good, imho. D2 is merely okay. The best parts of those modules are the atmosphere they establish. Far more than other modules, they establish the PCs are far from home, in an unfriendly enviornment, and all on their own. D3 always played more like a spy novel than a slaugherhouse, with PCs sneaking around trying not to stir up too much trouble until they found their way to the Fane.

    Q1 was interesting as an adventure. Its just not a premise I am particularly fond of (PCs taking on Demonlords directly, at least not at the levels recommended in the module).

    Anyway, I hardly think its fair to downgrade D3 because latter folks overused the drow into clichedom.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:50 pm  
    Re: Woo! Feedback!

    I think Snurre was encountered so soon because he wasn't supposed to be the climax of the adventure. The giants were just puppets. The big climax was finding out who the real instigators were, and dealing with them. The drow may be obnoxious now, but that was there first appearance. Even in the MM they were just listed as rumors. There's so much more going on there, I don't understand your feeling that there's not enough of a different feel between G3 and G1 & G2, but to each his own.
    Scott
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:12 pm  

    Snurre was, most likely, encountered right away because the whole thing was originally a tournament round. Each level of the G mods was a different round, so each had a boss monster. So Snurre was the "climax" of level 1, Eclavdra the climax of level 2, and the passage to the Underoerth the climax of level 3. In some ways it is better to think of each level of each G module as a different "dungeon".
    This also affects the treasure, which becomes almost absurdly placed, each setting up for the next "level" in the sequence, not to mention being rather overpowered for a typical campaign.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:22 pm  
    While I'll concede...

    ..there are undoubtedly reasons why G3 is the way it is, I cannot escape the conclusions of my own experiences with it. Indeed, I will even confess that my opinion of G3 is colored by seeing it as part of a series and not judging it on its own terms. I will hazard a guess that, had I run G3 alone without G1 or G2 before it, it might have gone over better. But giants, giants, and then more giants was simply too much, even with G3's subtle twists.

    But the real kicker is, how could I bump anything from my top 20 down to make room for G3? I would have to make it a top 25 or top 30 list...

    ~Scott C.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:09 pm  

    G3 is probably my top choice for best Gygax module written (though Necropolis vies with that...).
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