Canonfire! Forums-viewtopic-Aquaria

Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:17 pm Aquaria

Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:59 pm

I never did like the idea of King John - as a name that is.

I could see Thalos being a version of Aquaria. As discussed on other threads - when the Aerdi arrived at the Solnor, they were following the prophecy of Johydee saying that a Great Destiny awaited them in the east - on the shores of the sea where the sun was born. Most Aerdi took this to mean what became Medegia and Aerdy (besides, they weren't keen on sailing - being horse nomads and all).

However a small sect might have thought the land of the Great Destiny lay over the Solnor - in a place named Aquaria. And so, once they figured out some naval tech - departed Aerdy never to be seen or heard from again.

Against all odds, some of them made it to the Western end of Oerik (possibly via a stopover in southern Fireland). They staggered ashore - only to find...a nation of Oeridians already there - the Thalosi. At the time the Thalosi were being hard pressed by the Olve of Ravilla - but with the lore, skill and visionary leadership of one of the Aerdi newcomers, their fortunes recovered. The Olve were driven back and the Empire of Thalos was founded (but none of the kings were ever, ever called John!!!). Laughing

Meanwhile, back in Aerdy, Aquaria becomes a tall tale to tell children - until of course, the Sea Barons send their expedition across the Solnor...and where would they land? That's right - Thalos or as the sailors would have inevitably called it - Aquaria.

P.

Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:07 pm

Yog's Rescue? I'd hate to see what had Yog held prisoner. Wink

Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:33 am

Well it is Oeridian Manifest Destiny taken too far - Johydee probably never intended them to go a-sailing across the Solnor (probably). That's not going to stop a small band of nutbags who think a little too literally for their own good. :)

The "Aqua-Aerdi" (to borrow a term used elsewhere) sect could have gone west if they were imaginative enough to figure out the Oerth was round. But migrating right the way across Oerik is a pretty tall order - given all the potentially hostile nations (and great big mountain ranges) involved.

Even in the real world, the idea of sailing around the back end of the world to get to Cathay was preferable to marching all the way across Asia (Musselmans and Tartars and Buddhists - oh my!).

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:09 am

I dislike the thought that, except perhaps for a "minor" people here or there, most of Oerik, even Oerth, has been inhabited predominantly by Oeridians, Baklunish or Suel. It is as if everything of import were laid down in the Folio and 83 Boxed Set and no one can create anything else to rival this material when discussing the remainder of Oerik and Oerth.

Oeridians and Baklunish and Suel! Oh my!

A mere look at the geography suggests how preposterous this notion is, to say nothing of the example of the extremely light settlement pattern of the Flanaess, close by the OBS homelands. By analogy to the real world, the idea is no less preposterous.

OBS? Oh, BS!
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GVD

Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:30 am

Where the Oerids go wrong is perhaps evolving new cultures from the main baseline. So far as I can tell the Oerids started out west and never picked up any Suhfang culture, then moved east to Ull and picked up no Baklunish culture then moved east to Aerdy and picked up no Flan culture, then if one is so bold you take them east back to the start where in Aquaria I assume from names like 'John' they are the same Oerids they always were. I hope I'm wrong in this analysis, but even the Baklunish and Suel at least saw some discernable change after their migrations.

Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:03 am

Yeah I never liked that all the pre-history stuff for the Oerids always stems from either Ull or during their migrations to the Solnor from Ull.

You basically have an entire continent that is named after the Oeridians, we have vague historical phrases that hint about a mighty Oeridian nation at some point and yet all we ever get is Baron Lum was from Aerdi and Leuk-O was a general during their campaigns against the Flan and Priest Arnd was a follower of Heironeous during the wars against the Suel barbarians.

It's all very tired and unrealistic. The Flanaess isn't the be all end all of Oerth and I would like to see some investigative minds look realistically at the Oerid migrations and come up with something good.

We have almost 6000 years of vague history for Suel and over 3000 for the Baklunish, the Oeridians presumably the most import of the Flanaess races, get treated like red-headed step-children.

Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:43 pm

Of course the Oerids, Bakluni and Suel aren't the only peoples in Oerik. There's the Zahindis, the Sufheng and the other peoples that occupy southern and western Oerik (which is vaaaast).

However - if you try to integrate Chainmail - you have an Oeridian kingdom on the western end of Oerik as well as a tribe of suspiciously Baklunish sounding folk near the Celestial Mountains.

My suggestion is that both Bakluns and Oerids were originally (and in some cases still are) nomadic peoples from the steppes north of the Celestial Imperium. They both wandered widely - spreading east and west either by choice or under pressure from the expansions of Sufheng in the south (whihc neatly explains the both east and west spread, since their progress north is blocked by the sea and the ice of Hyperborea.

So some end up west of the Celestial Mountains in Thalos. Others make it as far east as Ull and Aerdy. That's a patchy distribution spanning the north of the continent - but it still leave plenty of room for other peoples farther south.

As for cultural differences/evolution, we know from Chainmail that the Oerids of Thalos are big on Stratis, the forgotton third brother of Hextor and Heironeous and his mother Stern Alia. Stratis is unknown to the eastern Oeridi and Stern Alia is a minor goddess. I'm sure the Thalosi Oerids have plenty of other weird cultural quirks we don't know about.

Equally - the Oerids of the Flanaess picked up the Common tongue from their interaction with (and possible subjugation by) the Bakluni. Then after the Migrations they adopted a slew of Flan gods since the Migrations (Solan for example, is now almost universally referred to by his Flan title - Pelor). Where they hit the sea, lakes and rivers, they learned to sail (and Procan - who on the western plains was likely a storm god in the mould of Zeus or Indra, became a god of the raging oceans). They also evolved civilised systems of government and settled societies that probably owe a lot to the examples of the Suel and Baklunish empires (either directly from Suel refugees or indirectly from remembered contact with the Bakluni in the west).

Most profoundly - given the mixing of peoples in the east - it's probably more accurate to refer to the populace of the Flanaess as Flanaessi, rather than Oerids, Suel and Flan any more (with noteable exceptions and enclaves - such as Tenh, Rhizia etc).

So I think there's more evolution there than there might first appear to be.

P.