I am contemplating a series of Canonfire articles and I would like some input.
I have been greatly impressed by Samwise’s Keoland timeline and I have it in mind to riff on it, much after the way I riffed on Tzelios’ Platonic Solids article. Please note “riff” does not mean copy or plagerize but rather means a work inspired by the timeline.
My thought is to write a mocked up edition of the Chronicle of Secret Times. As you will recall, the Chronicle is a Greyhawk tome introduced in Vecna Lives that purports to detail the history of the post-migration Suel in the Flanaess, particularly Keoland. As the Chronicle has been seen as politically incorrect at times, it has been variously banned in Keoland.
As I envision it, each chapter of the Chronicle would be a single Canonfire topical submission.
Each chapter would take for its subject the reign of one of Keoland’s kings (some 30 odd kings in total), first enumerated by Gary Holian in the short-lived Living Greyhawk Journal, and thereafter expanded upon by Samwise in his timeline.
Each individual chapter would consist of the following elements:
(1) Introduction (150 to 300 words)
(2) Chronicle Entry (500 to 750 words) - Written in character, each chapter would begin with a nod to Samwise’s timeline (in say a summary paragraph, not a verbatim recitation) and then look at the themes of the reign in original detail.
(3) Legacies Entry (200 to 300 words) - This section would provide three adventure seeds based on the Chronicle Entry that would allow present day Greyhawk characters to have adventures with ties to the history of the king in question or his reign. Hopefully, this would make the history “come alive.”
(4) Treasures Entry - (300 to 700 words) - This section would provide details on treasure originating in the reign of the king in question. This treasure could be used in connection with the adventure seeds or otherwise, allowing a DM to give treasure the flavor of the reign of the king in question.
Total word count would be between 1200 and 2200 words per entry, a little over two typewritten pages per king.
I would like to know from Canonfire readers:
a) Generally speaking is anyone interested in this sort of thing - is it a good idea?
And
b) Beyond the above noted components, is/are there other features or information that should be included in each entry?
I’m not putting the idea up to a vote, per se, but I would be interested in any input. As I’ve been conceptualizing the idea, I get a nagging feeling I may be missing something and I can’t seem to shake it.
Many thanks in advance!
BTW, if you think the idea stinks, please feel free to say it stinks. _________________ GVD
I would love to see you write about Keoland and in something like what you have discussed, but I think there would be problems with what you have proposed.
30 kings is a lot of articles- 90 adventure seeds! I am afraid that you would be forced to include things that might not be appropriate, individually, or on the whole, just for the sake of filling out the form you have described. Or you might not do justice to something that deserves more of an explaination.
I think the form you have described might be good for many, but I doubt very much all of the kings. I think you should start with the kings that interest you, without regard to chronology or commitment to all of them and see where it goes. Who knows, it might be appropriate to clump several together, or leave out sections, or add sections to some kings. If you address them all, then great.
One of the things I am interested in is the Jacinth of Inestimable Beauty. I believe Tzelios’ history had it stolen. In one of my articles, I suggested it was dropped in the Hool. Unless you put it in an adventure (as opposed to a seed), I think its whereabouts should not be specified and there should be some debate as to how it was lost. But it was in the hands of the kings for a while and it would be very interesting to read about what they did with it and how it impacted them and things.
sounds good to me, and like the above reply says 30 kings is a bit much and who says that all 30 kings devopled great magic or magic items?or the easy adventure treads could be finding the kings lost tomb but then you have the problem of placing them but all and all it sounds like a good idea
The "Legacies" part seems broad enough to include many different kinds of specificities, e.g., a distinctive monster or a political development.
Now that I've answered your questions, I'll share two ideas for you to consider incorporating into your opus.
First, I once developed the idea of a venerable royal battalion, which I associated with House Neheli but should probably be associated with House Rhola -- Rhola's Own, or the Rholan Light Horse. See generally http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=53.
Second, another idea I've developed is the Compact of Ehlonna, which names a promise made amongst women of the various human and demi-human races of the Sheldomar in the years prior to the founding of the Kingdom of Keoland.
As I've imagined it, this involved olven, noniz, and hobniz women outreaching to women of the Oeridian tribes and Suloise Houses and determining jointly that they must preserve life in the blessed Sheldomar Valley. The early proponents and current adherents of the Compact remain devoted to the Bright Lady, named Ehlenestra of the Woods by the olve, and are fierce opponents of Sevelkhar the Waster, known today as Incabulous...
Maybe this is too big for a project, or it may even include not too interesting parts in its hypothetic completion. Please consider the following more realistic alternative.
Early Keoland with lunatic Vecna or the remains of his empire present a wonderful era to adventure. It seems like once one is convinced that things happened just like LGG implies, then it is natural to put some false Vecnas after Vecna's demise (nonetheless, Haldamar of Vecna Lives! module is one of them in a sense). Before reading Samwise and discussing the mater with him in Greytalk (some months ago) I was convinced that something goes wrong with Vecna's timeline, mainly due to R.S. Mullin's article in Dragon#225 on Vecna's Ineffable Variorum, which evidently has not been taken into account by the developers of Keoland and Vecna histories. Regarding the Variorum two different approaches transpire in order not to contradict established lore:
1. Vecna visited the Suel to exchange magical knowledge. The presence of the Mages of Power at that ancient epoch makes this sound reasonable.
2. Along the concealment of any Vecna evidence House Rhola bans Chronicle of Secret Times. As an act that would conduct further misinformation and disorientation in researching Vecna, Rhola creates the Variorum.
When deciding courses of development, what I understood so far is that the course employed should enhance gaming opportunities and should also be as genuine as possible. After so much have been said on Vecna messing the post-cataclysmic migrants, putting Vecna to mess the Suel does not create much gaming opportunities, since not much is known on ancient pre-cataclysmic Suel Empire, and I know not even one campaign revolving around that era and place. On the other hand, to write down the difficulties, torments, and disastrous surprises during the creation of such a vile tome like the Variorum seems a lot more realistic, given all the developed material we have in hand. As an OJ contributing editor, and since I have added this little insight by surfacing the Dragon#225 anomaly I would like to welcome the use of the above thoughts towards an OJ submission. I would be glad to edit or even co-author a portion. The OJ is a very good place for such an article, and Samwise will definitely help to refine the ideas. Together with Marc-Tizoc’s stuff, and a possible inclusion of the Jacinth of Inestimable Beauty I believe this will be a great submission. _________________ "It is easier to milk a cow that stands still." Tzeliobas-Aristomenes, General Cleaning, Greyhawk Construction Company.
. . . I think there would be problems with what you have proposed.
30 kings is a lot of articles- 90 adventure seeds! I am afraid that you would be forced to include things that might not be appropriate, individually, or on the whole, just for the sake of filling out the form you have described. Or you might not do justice to something that deserves more of an explaination.
I think the form you have described might be good for many, but I doubt very much all of the kings. I think you should start with the kings that interest you, without regard to chronology or commitment to all of them and see where it goes. . . .
Good points It is a credit to Sam’s work that he has not only presented information on each of the kings but information that is suggestive of who they were and how their reigns fit within the pageant of history, even when the timeline entries are not large. For example, Luschan I (successor to Mandros I) has only two entries but I find him to be perhaps my favorite of the kings and have a very strong sense I could write about him at length, despite the slim entries. It would , however, be a large undertaking and an uncertain one that would take some time. The idea of doing a “best of” as you suggest is an interesting one as it would be like Suetonious’ Lives of the Twelve Caesars. I had already identified Suetonious as a model for how to expand on the timeline entries. Suetonious is, of course, the Roman historian who not only wrote the history of the Julio-Claudian emperors but dished the dirt on their reigns such that his text has been “banned” after a fashion on occasion. Echos of Uhas. “Going Suetonious” on the emperors of Keoland is not only an efficient approach, I think, in accord with what we know of Uhas, but could be just plain fun!
hal wrote:
. . . like the above reply says 30 kings is a bit much and who says that all 30 kings devopled great magic or magic items?or the easy adventure treads could be finding the kings lost tomb but then you have the problem of placing them but all and all it sounds like a good idea
With respect to the treasure entries, my thought is to avoid magic for the most part to focus on more “mundane” treasures, in part because I don’t want to be writing up huge item descriptions as it is not the point of the article. When magic is involved, I also want to keep it fairly simple - no artifacts or relics. Instead, I’d look for some lesser magics but add a history that puts them in a context more meaningful to the history being discussed. Is that disappointing? The adventure seeds are actually not so much a problem. Some (most, I hope) will be naturally suggested by the history, for the rest I have a collection of more or less generic adventure seeds that can be adapted to the history in a pinch - I use them when I need to generate a “quickie” adventure, IMC.
mtg wrote:
. . . The "Legacies" part seems broad enough to include many different kinds of specificities, e.g., a distinctive monster or a political development.
Now that I've answered your questions, I'll share two ideas for you to consider incorporating into your opus.
First, I once developed the idea of a venerable royal battalion, which I associated with House Neheli but should probably be associated with House Rhola -- Rhola's Own, or the Rholan Light Horse. . . .
Second, another idea I've developed is the Compact of Ehlonna, which names a promise made amongst women of the various human and demi-human races of the Sheldomar in the years prior to the founding of the Kingdom of Keoland.
As I've imagined it, this involved olven, noniz, and hobniz women outreaching to women of the Oeridian tribes and Suloise Houses and determining jointly that they must preserve life in the blessed Sheldomar Valley. . . .
Yes. The Legacies is a broad category that can include a number of possibilities. I’m thinking it might be well to subdivide the category to create other categories. We are on the same wave length. Both my wife and I are fans of your charioteers and she actually suggested it last night as an example of how entries might be expanded. I like the idea but it would need to be part of a broader category as there will not be that many special units or they would not then be that special anymore. The Compact of Ehlonna is a very interesting idea. The timeline makes no mention of the queens of Keoland or of women in Keoland really. I think this is fertile ground for development.
Tzelios wrote:
. . . Maybe this is too big for a project, or it may even include not too interesting parts in its hypothetic completion. Please consider the following more realistic alternative.
Early Keoland with lunatic Vecna or the remains of his empire present a wonderful era to adventure. ::snip:: As an OJ contributing editor, . . . I would like to welcome the use of the above thoughts towards an OJ submission. . . .
The thought of making this a single OJ article is certainly a possibility. I’d be interested in Duicarthan’s thoughts on that score. However, unless I catch lightning in a bottle, this project will take at least year or more likely two, as it is something I would not attempt at a sitting but rather something I would take up, put down and then come back to. My thought is not to concentrate solely on this article series to the exclusion of everything thing.
Good thoughts everyone and thanks! Please keep the ideas coming as they strike you. I appreciate the help. _________________ GVD
Just as a note:
A considerable amount of the phrasing for the Timeline (and the related essays) was done with the specific intention of suggesting plot hooks and campaign concepts. I don't spell them out, but if you think something implies an obvious adventure you are most likely correct. It is supposed to.
I would disagree that the Chronicle of Secret Times is based on the Secret History, though the titles are obviously similar. I see more similarity to Suetonious in his more unguarded moments.
In any event, I would not want to adopt Procopius as a model for Uhas. My intent would not be to trash the kings of Keoland in the manner of Procopius but rather to do more of a VH1 "Behind the Music," which I see as more Suetonious as he acknowledged the greatness of his subjects but then told "the rest of the story." Procopius was doing a hatchet job. I don't want to write a hatchet job. _________________ GVD
But that's what the Chronicle of Secret Times was - a hatchet job.
Well, maybe not that ugly, but it was banned because it revealed the secrets. Uhas had done an approved version for King Gillum, but thatdidn't include all the fun dirt and naty secrets.
Everything you read about the CoST sounds exactly like Procopius' Secret History. Like Uhas, Procopius was a court/imperial historian who produced the usual worthy and sanitised annals of Justinian's reign. Then he let rip in the Secret History telling things as he saw them (and how they may have happened).
I'm not sure if Uhas has quite the purile fascinations of Procopius (with his corn-pecking geese and other lurid supermarket tabloid stories about Theodora) - but he would be telling things as they are in a pretty vitriolic fashion.
If the CoST has details of Neheli dealings with Vecna, then have Uhas' viewpoint be moral outrage at the mendacity of his kinsmen.
It is really impressing you unearthed Procopius and Suetonius!!! _________________ "It is easier to milk a cow that stands still." Tzeliobas-Aristomenes, General Cleaning, Greyhawk Construction Company.
Well, I would have no intention of utilizing Procopius' method. As it turns out, there is no need to do so. Suetonius, sure. Not Procopius.
Uhas wrote during the very last stages of the Slumbering (See LGJ 4 at 12). This means Uhas, and the Chronicle, could have had nothing to say about any of the later Keolandish kings. How then to address the later kings? Obviously, another writer needs to pick up where Uhas left off. Turns out, LGJ 4 provides just such a personage in the mysterious "Shadow-Sage," who has tweaked the Silent Ones among others. It is, then, possible to have the Shadow-Sage supplement (and tweak?) Uhas' text, leaving it for the reader to decide how reliable or unreliable the narration has become, third hand. Which, IMO, is a near perfect outcome as it allows a DM an easy way to vary the text to suit their own campaign or simply to confound their players. Those desiring certitude can have it, while those prefering latitude can have it as well.
On another note, I'm thinking Wolfsire was correct and that the OJ might better accomodate the Chronicle as one giant article rather than a 30 post serial on CF. _________________ GVD
However, being now advised that there is already a "chronicle of secret times" project in the works, my thought becomes redundent. "Great minds," as they say.
Best to the "secret chronicle."
As Daffy Duck (playing Robin Hood) would say, "yoicks and away!" _________________ GVD
Yup Samwise has been working on this project for some time now. I've asked GVD however if he'd like to do an article on Slerotin's Manifesto for the Oerth Journal so if anyone would like to see that give GVD a Private Message and bug him or leave a message here.
I earnestly hope that he does the article. _________________ Cheerz,
-Rick "Duicarthan" Miller
Editor-in-Chief, Oerth Journal
http://www.oerthjournal.comhttp://www.greyhawkonline.com/duicarthan
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Those desiring certitude can have it, while those prefering latitude can have it as well.
