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    4th Edition Elf is up
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 28, 2007
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    From: Montevideo, Minnesota, US

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    Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:25 pm  
    4th Edition Elf is up

    Hello all, the 4th edition elf is up in Dragon....

    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20071221
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:25 pm  

    Not a bad concept for elves, but I doubt that it aligns much with anyone's existing campaign; certainly doesn't match any of the published game worlds. Brown skinned and shaggy haired isn't the way most folks think of elves.

    I see we are only getting stat bonuses now, not stat penalties. Too bad the half orcs got cut, they'd finally have a shot at equality again.

    I am disappointed that they are going with "squares" of movement instead of feet or meters or something else. But then they've always said they wanted to sell our souls to the mini manufacturers, so its hardly a surprise.

    Dunno what the new power level of feats is, but the elf racial feat given isn't very impressive. +2 to hit if you use a reroll power that is presumably once per encounter?
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    Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:47 pm  

    There is another Hasbro game that uses squares of movement. Someday D&D will be dumbed down to this:
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:08 am  

    Amusing as that is, I don't really think they are "dumbing down" the game. And using squares certainly isn't a dumbing down move even if they are. Its not really any different from the earlier editions giving moves in rounds, turns, and inches (ie miniatures rules terminology instead of normal measures).

    These elves and the eladrin are actually more sophisticated concepts than the original elves of D&D. Its just that stealing the eladrin name like that sticks in my craw and, perhaps more importantly, they are tossing out nearly everyone's existing 'elf lore'. I wonder how that will end up going over.
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:48 am  

    I would say out of the articles we have seen so far, this one disturbs me the least. I'm all for tradition (tweaking tradition as the decades of D&D pass) and I think these elves will get by for most folks. There have always been a few issues of elves I have either really liked or disliked.

    I liked the idea of elves living far longer than other races, but at the same time was never comfortable with the actual number of years they (TSR/WOTC) let them age. For me, centuries was just to much. Reducing them to about 200 years fits a lot better for me. I was also never comfortable with how they were so old compared to other races at the beginning of a campaign. So old but yet never any better for it. This elf corrects that issue for me.

    What I find myself concentrating is the Wild Step ability. Clearly I don't know much about it, but from what I have gathered, it is some sort of (lack of better words) mini-teleport within the woods ability. Perhaps this understanding is completely incorrect, I think I got the idea from reading another post.

    I like the idea in itself for an elf to rapidly move around in circles in the forest when surrounding someone who invades their territory. What I don't like is that it is so different for D&D. If I was playing another game system all together (not one labeled D&D), I actually can picture this image a lot and think Neat. If this concept is accurate however, for D&D, it's just very different. Not something I couldn't swallow, yet something that requires an acquired taste. So we'll have to see where Wild Step leads.

    The movement in squares.....I'd rather not use this. Sure it will be easier, that I get. But for me, easier does not necessarily mean better. When I was in junior high, D&D was a mind exercise....I didn't understand all the rules and there was always something to challenge my learning capacity with. Now I'm a couple of years older and game rules are easier to learn. But I miss this brain exercise. I don't want my D&D (or any other game) to be that simple to understand and figure out. I want to work for the positive experiences that gaming offers...not have someone hand it to me and say "Ok, here are the rules, take an hour to read and your good to go!" I want a brain exercise. For me, that's part of gaming.

    Anyway, the point is....movement in squares is easier to learn and teach, these are positives for new players......so I understand where they are coming from.....but for me.....a RPG should make me think (and this includes the rules, fluff, making up my own material, and figuring out how to deal with players.

    I will greatly miss the image I have of elves being the most regal of all the races. To me, they are a race which if anything, are a bit of an elitist. The wild/feral look, great for wild elves...bad for the rest. The average elf IMO should look down on other races (slightly).

    As far as the background story....with regular elves and drow....fine. The Eladrin thing....PHOOOEEY......

    The height increase....DOUBLE PHOOEEY.....

    The height increase plus the given weight........TRIPLE PHOOOEY.....elves should be slender not anorexic.
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:37 am  

    Hey Mort.....can I play?
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:22 am  

    Yeah, I did notice that height/weight issue. Its beyond slender. The height of elves has always been world specific. They are short in GH, human height in the FR, taller than humans in Dark Sun, and I'm not sure in Dragonlance (kender, gully dwarves, and so on turned me off that pretty fast).

    My only problem with the eladrin is the name. I see it as the same failure of creativity that leads to the deity potluck. I don't buy advertising/preview material, so I don't have first hand experience of what's been written, but it sounds pretty interesting. Its just going to be a constant sore point in future discussions between fans using different editions. Blech.

    Btw, I absolutely do NOT think that squares are being used to make things simpler in general. Unless they change the AoEs of Fireball to make it FireCube or something, its not actually easier. And its being done purely allow them to further emphasis their miniatures sales, which are a big part of WotC's strategy (both currently and in 4e).

    As for wild step, I'm not sure what that is. But I didn't get the impression its a teleport. It seems rather like the druid's current ability to move without terrain hindrances. I was guessing it meant something like the new rules' equivalent of the 5' step couldn't be hindered by bad terrain, even if you had a feat that let you make longer 5' steps. If its a dimension hop, that's definitely a big change.
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:23 am  

    I'm agree with you about the miniature sales issue and the squares. I do think it was also done to be made easier for the new players, which I can understand. My point about all of that was simply that I like to think and therefore learn when I play RPG. My math skills have improved greatly as a result. So I think it is both.

    As far as wild step, we'll have to see. I wish I could recall where I got the idea. Again I have no idea of accuracy. Maybe it was a dream...
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:54 am  

    Once again, Mort, you made me laugh out loud. Can you please stop it, man. People in my house think I've lost it big-time.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:19 am  

    I must admit that I'm totally surprised by the new Elf.

    I don't know what I was expecting-something really objectionable I guess. What I was not expecting was a whole load of nothing. But thay somehow delivered it. Where is the "cool stuff"? Where is the material that's going to "rock my world"? A change in appearance and a new ability. Movement in squares. And......?

    Consider me unrocked.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:43 pm  

    I think that's what the Eladrin are for... The new elf is mainly surprising in the culture that they've given it, rather than the mechanics. And that was covered in an article some months back rather than in this post.
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