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    Canonfire :: View topic - Questions about Player Kits and Player's Options
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Questions about Player Kits and Player's Options
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 15, 2003
    Posts: 100
    From: Orktown, Manitoba, Canada

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    Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:20 pm  
    Questions about Player Kits and Player's Options

    Hey all. I'm starting to do some of the hardcore work on my Greyhawk campaign (nostly everything to now has been theoretical). I've been doing some reading of my Complete Character boosk, and reading through the Player's Options books. The last time I played AD&D, it was a month after 2nd Ed came out, so I haven't had the chance to use any of this stuff.

    How do you find the player kits, as presented in these books? Are they useful, or more hassle than they're worth? Are they balanced?

    Alos, what's your take on the Player's Options books? Some of the stuff I like... some other things (like the secondary abilities and stuff) seem more work than they're worth.

    The campaign I'm going to run (hopefully 8) will feature a bunch of first-time AD&Ders, so I'm sticking to REAL basic characters for them (I'm actually going to pre-generate a bunch of characters, and let them pic from those).
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

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    Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:41 pm  

    While I like many o the Players Options rules, I never used all of them. Some the class Kits are unbalanced by a long shot. For players new to AD&D I'd stick to just the very basic things in the Players handbook. You can add Monks who have their 2e rules in The Scarlet Brotherhood supplement if somebody wants to play a Monk(not necessarily one from the Scarlet Brotherhood though).
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 563
    From: brazil

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    Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:57 am  

    i used kits for alooong time, then it shows as very unbalanced.

    i like some options in the fighters handbook, like combat styles and some other things, but i would recomned you NOT to use them.

    for the PO, i own them but have never read it..ehehe
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 15, 2003
    Posts: 100
    From: Orktown, Manitoba, Canada

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    Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:33 am  

    Hmmm.... I have the Scarlet Brotherhood supplement, but I've never really read it. I'll have to look into it.

    My thinking was, I was going to stick to the basic classes from the PHB for players, but use some of the kits from the Class books for NPC flavour. I know from looking through the Fighter's class book, that some of those kits are just brutal.

    As for optional rules, anyone have experience with the secondary abilities from Player's Option? Do they help, or hinder, the game? I looked at some of the fighting rules... they look like they might be interesting.

    If the 2nd ed. version of monks was in the Scarlet Brotherhood supplement, was there ever an analog for barbarians? The version presented in the fighter classbook seems a little thin for my liking (although I'm sure I could whip up some flavour rules to cover whatever I want 8).
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
    Posts: 924
    From: Computer Desk

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    Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:40 pm  

    I am also against the kits for balance issues and philosophocal ones. Frankly I think if anything can be done through roleplaying it should. The fighter can be anyone from a barabarian to a pompous cavalier to a toothless peasant with a sword.

    If you want to play a certain type and style simply roleplay the PC that way. Whether it was to create books for consumption or in response to unimaginative players the gaming community accepted the notion that a class or kit is important then roleplaying. On some boards you can read endless formulas for what to take to make your character a certain something. When I posted why not roleplay the character - some posters were stunned - just roleplay?

    Keep it simple - you want your character to act a certain way - you roleplay him that way.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

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    Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:48 am  

    You can just use the 1e classes as is. They translate over with little fuss.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 06, 2003
    Posts: 85
    From: Torrance, Calif.

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    Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:46 am  

    For first time gamers I recommend taking Thaco out. Most newbies just get confused by it unless they're into mathematics or something similar. Beside, I think the worse thing that happened to AD&D was giving the players their character's Thacos. Mostly because the game becomes more mechanical. It really brings the game to life if the DM can create the action in a way that allows the players to see the action in their minds. It adds more tension if a DM can say: 'the orcs axe just misses you as you lean back to dodge it,' vs, 'i hit AC 8, it misses you.'

    As for kits and what not, many of them are like Prestige Classes in the sense that they tell the player how to roleplay their character. Its a nice crutch in certain circumstances, but if someone plays one of the more unbalanced kits, like a bladesinger, then the game quickly becomes less fun for them. I'd recommend centering the game on story and creating engaging plots over any rules-based hack-n-slash.

    Last: i always had a problem with the Skills n' Powers, even when they first came out. Too many of the skills you add to a character class didn't make much sense, like the Detect Magic for a Thief. How did he learn that? Did a magic-user teach him how to cast that? if thats the case, does he need material components or a spell book? Is the character a magical being like a tiefling? If so, is this a magical ability for him/her? And if that is the case, then does that take the place of some other magical power? That is part of a conversation I had with a player once. Whereas d20, and Skills n' Powers, to an extent rely on quantitative thinking, it withers when you apply qualitative thinking to it. But I digress.

    Dude, keep it simple and remember to have fun! If people aren't having fun, you're not doing it right!
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