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    Canonfire :: View topic - Hello! .... and HELP! :)
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Welcome to Greyhawk!
    Hello! .... and HELP! :)
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 18, 2008
    Posts: 12
    From: Bologna, Italy

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    Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:23 pm  
    Hello! .... and HELP! :)

    Hello from Italy (so, pls forgive my poor english).

    This will be a "long" presentation, 'cause i think this will be helpfull to better understand my final request for help... and, after all, i like to know you and let you know me Smile

    I'm an italian long time D&D player. I'm 38 years old, and i started to play D&D in mid '80. At that time, D&D was finally translated in italian as long the Dragonlance books. Having the Vatican here, we was tagged as satanist or somewhat similar very soon, and (i guess) with some more intensity than our friends in US (and i am a catholic, so guess what kind of things happened when we start playing in our manse! Happy ).
    Then we discovered that girls have some meanings, so i ceased to play D&D until these years, when a friend bought the 3.5 cores.
    Now i'm the DM of my kids and some of they friends: the boy is 9 years old, and my daughter 11, and we play from 3 years ago. So i have to run "simple" adventures with great care about the amount of "tension" and "gore/horror" i put on them (i've discovered that i can tell about ripped bodies and such without too much fear, but i CAN'T let the boy PC be alone in a dungeon or the boy will have REAL FEAR... power of imagination).

    I feel that now they have the age and the "playing knowledge" to play in a "real world" (right now they have just seen some classic dungeon and a bunch of little villages tied by problems rised by an orc horde).

    I'm searching for a "ready" location (i have no time to draw a new world from nothing), and so i have looked at the famous books: Eberron, and FR.
    While i will like Eberron, i feel that the "pseudo-technology" will not appeal my kids: they're born with the LoTR movies and they feel that a fantasy world works in that manner (and kids NEEDS stereotypes).
    FR seems a more "classical" world, most of the books are translated in italian, but there's something that does not make me buy them, right now.
    In the books shelf i've found the Greyhawk "atlas"...
    - What the hell is Greyhawk? - i asked
    - The "default" world of the core rules, from the beginning of D&D. You have always played in it, if not otherwise stated -

    I bought that tiny book just to see what it was (i can risk 9.90 euros).
    Sadly, it is the worst thing i've seen in modern D&D books. I can live with a BW book, and i can live with a book without pictures (but my players WANTS them: they can stare a good picture for hours, trying to redraw it after) but this book give me nothing else than a A3 sized map and a list of towns and "realms". More, there's nothing else in italian about Greyhawk.
    So, while i will like to "stay" in GH, i have to think at the amount of work i must do to find the infos in english, study them, and make some part readable by my kids.
    Frankly, i'm tempted to switch to Dragonlance: i have the same difficulies, but at least i know a bit of that world thanks to the Dragonlance books (which i still have ready for my kids). But i feel DL less "open" than GH...

    So here i am. I feel a lot of passion in Canonfire, and there's a lot of knowledge.
    BUT
    it is hard. I'm browsing this forum for a whole day, and i'm still feeling lost, 'cause you all know what are you talking about, and there's not a sort of "intro" for beginners. Being a programmer, i can understand it: in a C++ forum filled with advanced arguments someone asked about "what is the C++ syntax?"

    So, i'm asking about the "Basic" of GH. I will pose a serie of specific questions, to help the answers Smile

    1) Where i can see the politicals boundaries?
    2) Where the <put any 3.5 non human race here> lives, and from where they comes?
    3) Where the <put any 3.5 intelligent evil race here> lives? (i mean: orcs, goblins, etc..)
    4) How Monks are "inserted" in GH? what they do and where?
    5) Why should i place my PCs in a specific GH year?
    6) Where should i look for a better, deeper description of the "realms" of GH?

    Thanks to all in advance, and sorry for the LLLOOOOOOONNG post.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

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    Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:35 am  

    Welcome to Canonfire! Parduz! Happy

    You might have picked up this:

    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/117420000

    when you probably should have picked up this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Greyhawk_Gazetteer

    The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer has a lot more information than the D&D Gazetteer. It also comes with a somewhat better map. Each nation entry lists percentages on how much of the population is made up of elves, dwarves, etc. There simply isn't anything that tells *exactly* where every single grouping of whatever race lives though. Larger concentrations of the various races are cited however. The rest is up to you. The D&D Gazetteer makes for a great players' primer on Greyhawk, as it is not as detailed. The players' characters shouldn't know every single detail about the world anyways- the DM should. For that reason, the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer makes for a better DM source book.

    You could also look at this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Greyhawk_Fantasy_Game_Setting

    This is the main setting boxed set. The later D&D Gazetteer has much of the same information, but it is missing some key things. The earlier boxes set also comes with a 16 panel area map which when assembled is about 32 inches by 44 inches in size.

    Here is a list of Greyhawk products you might also look for:

    http://www.cmc.net/~rtaylor/greyhawk/product_list.html

    The following titles contain additional or more detailed information on various areas than do the other books/boxed sets:

    [ ] 1043 The City of Greyhawk [boxed]
    [ ] 9398 WGR4 The Marklands
    [ ] 9399 WGR5 Iuz the Evil
    [ ] ---- WGR7 Ivid the Undying (unpublished)
    [ ] 9578 Player's Guide to Greyhawk
    [ ] 9577 Greyhawk: The Adventure Begins
    [ ] 11374 The Scarlet Brotherhood
    [ ] 11621 Slavers

    That ought to get you started on your Greyhawk information hunt. Happy
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 18, 2008
    Posts: 12
    From: Bologna, Italy

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    Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:33 am  

    I'm soo sad. Sad Sad

    I was hoping to find a "canon GH" in Canonfire!. There's not.
    If were a student i could go hunting infos and writing my own version of GH, but as i have not so much time i need to pass.
    I'd liked to "live" in GH. It charme me in many ways. But the tiny spare time i have need to be used to write up the adventures for my kids, and i need a detailed, finished, deep world as a base for my events.
    Right now GH is a map, a chronology of historical events and a list of locations (realms, towns, inns.).
    What else GH is, or is claimed to be, stays in the homes and in the hearts of GH fans.
    You're (obvioulsy! Happy ) happy of your own world, and so you don't feel the need of a "Definitive GH book". Reading here and where in the forum i've learned that Ice barbarians can be Vikings or Esquimese, depending by the forum member. There's even some debate about the order or some history events. Really, i don't want this degree of freedom.

    Another strange thing i see is that each time a newb ask for infos there no one telling "read the Oerth journal!"...
    Seems to me that the Journals are additional material, you have to already grasp the "core".

    Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming anyone! You all "veterans" Wink are fine with your worlds and with the kind of infos there's at Canonfire, and so i am. It just don't fit my needs for a "ready to use world".

    So, i finally think that i'll drift to the Forgotten Realms... with a tiny bitter taste.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 1477
    From: Wichita, KS, USA

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    Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:53 pm  

    Hi Parduz---

    Don't mistake the mission of Canonfire! by reading too far into the site's title/history. Yes, there is certainly a lot of home-brewed Greyhawk content here, but there's also a lot of material that is based on (and doesn't go beyond) TSR and WotC Greyhawk canon.

    If you're able to let us know what canon you're most interested in leveraging, I'm sure folks will be able to provide you with pointers toward content that would meet your requirements.
    _________________
    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
    http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 18, 2008
    Posts: 12
    From: Bologna, Italy

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    Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:12 pm  

    Ok. It happens that a friend have the Living Gazetter. Friday i'll meet him and so i have a whole W.E. to grasp GH and pose detailed questions....
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

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    Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:51 pm  

    About the only thing that the Forgotten Realms has over Greyhawk are the many source books produced for it during the 2nd Edition game era. Greyhawk has never been detailed as broadly, but it has been detailed in some products which I further listed- Iuz the Evil, the Marklands, Ivid the Undying, The Scarlet Brotherhood, and The City of Greyhawk boxed set to be specific. Those are all area sourcebooks with a good amount of material in them.

    If you are looking for something completely detailed then you won't find it. Nothing is completely detailed, even the Forgotten Realms. I've posed the idea of attaching a "canon rating" to articles, but I wouldn't use it to limit what I would and would not read about or use. The setting will become your own after all based on how you choose to have key events play out.

    To be specific, Canonfire! bears no official sanction of any kind from WotC to write Greyhawk material, nor does The Oerth Journal. All of the material is created by the fans, though some of those fans have indeed actually written published Greyhawk material. People do indeed have different interpretations of various things, such as in your example of the Ice Barbarians. If somebody chooses to turn near albino Suel into Eskimos then that is up to them, and as a person new to Greyhawk you ought to ask questions about things. Greyhawk will make a bit more sense to you after you read the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer.

    I am pretty sure you can find most of these things available as pdf downloads for about $5.00 US each. Ivid the Undying is actually FREE, and can be found here:

    http://www.io.com/~wmallman/files/Ivid%20v3.pdf
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