Canonfire! Forums-viewtopic-"Order" for playing supermodules?

Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:49 am "Order" for playing supermodules?

In the Pumping Up Canonfire thread, Rossik brought up a FAQ to answer some Greyhawk-specific questions. One of them was "what order to run the supermodules in". That got me to thinking...

Does anyone else but me think it is insane to expect new PCs to start in T1 and go straight to the ToEE? Without extremely experienced players, very cautious tactics, and a generous amount of magic (need some +2 weapons to deal with elementals), it just seems like suicide to me. Depending on the number of PCs, there's barely enough XP in the moathouse to get all the PCs to 2nd level without a large 'story award'.

The last time I ran the series, I used the following order:
- T1
- B2 (changing the temple into one to Elemental Evil, run by Lareth)
- ToEE above ground + level 1
- A1-4 (slavers attacked Hommlet & took some of the villagers the PCs knew)
- C2 (shipwrecked on the way back from the Pomarj)*
- ToEE levels 2 & 3
- Elemental Nodes
- ToEE level 4 & final confrontation with Zuggy
- Planned S4, WG4, then GDQ, but never got the chance

These were interspersed with sidetreks, trips to Verbobonc, Celene, and Greyhawk to consult sages, veterans of the original assault on the temple, etc. (also allowed the party to gain experience).

* Just for a change of pace
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Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:03 pm

Sounds like a logical progression. I was only saying that you can't "tell" a DM how to run their game, you can only make suggestions. Like you just did and its a good one. Cool

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Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:16 pm

Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:35 pm

I would slip L1 and L2 between B2 and A1-4

Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:47 pm

ToEE is definitely not for beginners. The players need a few levels.
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Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:00 pm

Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:03 pm

Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:30 pm

You could give them a pair of red slippers and a little dog. Smile

Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:31 pm

Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:39 pm

Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:54 pm

You mean you don't have the obligatory girl elf!? Shocked

Absolutely shocking! An outrage! Laughing

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Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:25 pm

You're right about ToEE needing a little "boost" here and there in terms of XP awards. I usually do that with the occasional side trek.

Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:25 pm

Hmm....I've played T1-4 and run it twice (though the 2nd time it was modified for my home-brew world) and I always thought there was more than enough XP....ended as 4th level after T1 and 7th after TOEE...
though, I DID start out at 2nd level when I played it; and have started my PCs at levels 2-3 (there were only 3 of us PCs when playing it...and when I've run it, I had 4 players both times).

Both the DM who ran me thru it; and when I ran it; believed in story awards at certain points in the module though....how "hardcore old-school" do you guys play it?

Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:23 pm

Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:50 pm .

Back in the day, my DM was very good, but my friends and I were also very tactically sound players. Even the end of the Moathouse can be rough for 1st level characters, let alone the actual Temple Grounds themselves. If some of the characters manage to make 2nd level before then(much easier in 1e/2e for thieves and other lower XP requiring classes), things will go much better for them.

There are a few ways to make things more survivable for the characters though. First off, we ran a party of 8 characters. Each player had two, and the DM ran 2 NPCs. We usually do things that way, allowing the DM to do a little playing(kind of), as well allow the DM to be able to insert NPCs useful to adventures, if needed. So, we start with a varied group with some good combat potential. Also, if one character goes unconscious from damage, a player isn't sitting around for the session until the other players get them back on their feet. It is rare for both of a player's characters to go unconscious unless something really bad has happened.

But that still doesn't equal survival later on, so the next thing is *random encounters*. You add a few more. The encounters become not so random, but *what you run into* is random. This helps the party get a few extra XPs to build them up.

Lastly, keep information on the actual ToEE on the down low. Nobody in Hommlet who knows about it will want to talk about the place to be sure, though they might just happen to mention a little place called Nulb instead... That of course leads to more random encounters on the trip to Nulb, and then likely some encounters in Nulb itself, as the party begins to investigate the place. The atmosphere of the Nulb alone will have the PCs on edge, if the DM describes Nulb as the butt crack of a place that it really is. Sooner or later, someone is going to rub somebody else the wrong way, and PCs will get mixed up in something. That equals more XPs.

Optimally, the PCs will be 2nd to 3rd level by the time they get to the ToEE grounds. A suggestion to reconnoiter the area will likely lead them to the surrounding areas first. It did when I played in it, and it did when I DMed it two times.

All of that adds up to just that much more XP before the PCs really start digging into the ToEE proper. Be sure to play up all of the side stuff along the way- random encounters, and all the little things in the various main areas away from the ToEE. The less obvious stuff that may be found in various locales also leads to more action, and therefore more XPs.

If a DM does all of that, the PCs will have a fighting chance, and will not get massacred in the ToEE unless they do something really stupid such as split up, or alert too many enemies at one time and fail to run away when they are outclassed. it is completely unnecessary to run any sort of additional side trek adventure to prepare PCs for the ToEE.

Keeping the structure I just laid out in mind, you can run T1-4 Right into A1-4, right into GDQ. You may wish to hold back on few things so as to be able to slip in a side adventures that you'd like to DM, like The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun(best inserted between the A series and GDQ), but you really can run all three of the Supermodules in a row with very little added effort.
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Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:45 am

the computer game Temple of Elemental EVil gives some nice ideas about side quests in hommlet and nulb (even in verbobonc, with the mods)

Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:09 am AD&D Modules & Supermodules Level Chart

http://www.acaeum.com/library/addmodchart.html

Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:45 am

I want to get a copy of the computer version of ToEE myself. Sounds pretty good. Cool

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Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:37 pm

Interesting experiences about the ToEE. When I ran the Moathouse for my party, they had some real strong characters and the Moathouse was a virtual cakewalk for them, even though they were 1st level.

I found, though, on the 1st level, having ghouls overbear and then use their bite as a coup-de-grace to be quite effective for this group, though.

I really like that module progression. I think i'll use that when I run the module again.

Has anyone run it straight, no modifications, in 1st edition?

The Grey Mouser

Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:31 am