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    Canonfire :: View topic - Detect Magig & Invisibility
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    Detect Magig & Invisibility
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 22, 2001
    Posts: 103
    From: Montevideo (Uruguay)

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    Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:46 am  
    Detect Magig & Invisibility

    Hi all,

    A couple of sessions ago a member of the party that was invisible, died as a consequence of a spell (flame strike). After the battle the cleric tried to find her using a detect magic spell. Some of the players argued that he couldn't but I ruled in favor of the cleric. Now I'd like your opinion on that issue. What do you think?

    BTW, we're playing D&D 3e.

    Saludos,
    Gabriel
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    Joined: Oct 14, 2003
    Posts: 586
    From: Rel Astra

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    Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:35 am  

    I believe any magic on a live person ceases when that person dies. There's no soul or aura to attach magic to a dead person. Ofcourse, I don't know squat about 3rd Ed, so /shrug
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 22, 2001
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    From: Montevideo (Uruguay)

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    Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:44 am  

    Hi,

    I see your point, but maybe I wasn't clear enough. What the cleric was trying to find was the magic of the _items_ the dead character was carrying.

    Saludos,
    Gabriel
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: May 13, 2004
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    From: MS Gulf Coast

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    Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:00 am  

    I'm very much in favor of the cleric being able to find the person. It makes perfect sense actually. Just because the character is dead doesn't mean her magic items will no longer be detectable. If that were the case then detecting magic on a ring of featherfall that isn't currently being worn by someone would come up as nonmagical. That was a very good idea to cast Detect Magic. I probably would have just walked around the room until I tripped over her or stepped on her. Embarassed

    As far as Abyss' point about magic ending on a dead person. I dunno. Just a few weekends ago we had a villian fleeing who had cast invisibility on himself. My mage cast detect invisibility, as he had already pulled this stunt on us once before and escaped. She pointed him out with her staff as he ran across the room and our archer followed her staff and picked him off. Our DM had him fall out into the floor with arrows sticking out of apparent nothingness until the spell ended. So I think my DM was looking at it from the point of view that the magic had already been summoned and cast so therefore it's effects would last for its allotted time. That is a very interesting point though.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: May 14, 2002
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    From: Renton WA

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    Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:29 pm  

    from the 3e perspective there is nothing to indicate that a spll does not continue to the end of its duration once the caster dies... in fact the I believe it states this in the FAQ someplace...

    some spells will end when the reciepient dies however, because a dead thing is considered an object and not a creature. if the spell can not target objects it will imediatly end when the creature dies, as it will no longer be a valid target for the spell (for example Bull's Strength)... if it can target objects (ex. Invisibility) then the spell will stay in effect until the duration expires.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 20, 2002
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    From: England

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    Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:49 am  

    My two copper pieces;
    I don't think I would allow detect magic to locate the magic items on an invisible person per se. I think somewhere (maybe Dragon) there was the question posed of detecting an invisible person using just detect magic. I believe the answer, and the one I use IMC, is detect magic will give you a very vague direction, no idea of distance, and the caster must concentrate for several rounds before getting any info. If you don't restrict detect magic thus versus invisibility then you dont need detect invisibility at all and it becomes useless.

    As for magic ending upon death, well IMC the party lost an invisible theif who was checking for traps across a bridge spanning a vast pit in Delvenbrass. As the thief went over the brow of the bridge he was killed by abyssal bats (radar is a wonderful thing), and the party had to use a dispel magic to find him again.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 22, 2001
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    From: Montevideo (Uruguay)

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    Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:55 am  

    Yabusama wrote:
    My two copper pieces;
    I don't think I would allow detect magic to locate the magic items on an invisible person per se. I think somewhere (maybe Dragon) there was the question posed of detecting an invisible person using just detect magic. I believe the answer, and the one I use IMC, is detect magic will give you a very vague direction, no idea of distance, and the caster must concentrate for several rounds before getting any info. If you don't restrict detect magic thus versus invisibility then you dont need detect invisibility at all and it becomes useless.


    I agree with you. But, since the magic of the items carried by someone invisible does not dissapear, it gives to the caster of a detect magic, the notion that there's a presence of magic "somewhere over there". Then after several rounds the caster could pin-point the position of the invisible one.

    This use of the spell would be useless against an invisible moving target, and that's where a detect invisibility becomes the right choice.

    Saludos,
    Gabriel
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 11, 2004
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    From: MS Gulf Coast

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    Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:01 am  

    Hi Everyone,

    I feel that a detect magic spell, given time, could find someone invisible. It never states in the spell info for invisibility that a creature turns visible after death. Either the caster or recipient ends the spell by there choosing, by attacking, dispelled or the 24 hour duration has passed. So I feel that the corpse would stay unseen until the 24 hour duration for the spell were up. The spell was cast while the victim was alive, It would not know if they were dead to "turn off" unless stated in the spell info that it was to do so at the time of death. The detect magic would have picked up the auras of the spell and the magic items on said dead PC. It would have just taken a little time to scan the area. Good call,Carlanco!

    I do see where everyone is coming from though with "then what good is detect invisibility if you have detect magic?" The scene that my sweetie Tedra gave happened that her MU saw him go invisible, judged her direction to the door from him, and he crossed into the 60 degree zone passing as he headed for the exit. She told the archer, I gave all his negs to hit, She rolled and hit him anyway (Yes, I'm still in awe over the luck Mad ). And once he had an arrow to see, It was bye bye MU.

    But as far as trying to scan a room or area with detect magic for an live invisible enemy. I think anyone that has the smarts to cast magic would know that this would be useless to find them being only able to scan 60' a round and possibly deadly for the concentrating MU unless, like I was saying above, That the MU saw them go invisible, the MU knew his tactics from there last meeting, And shear dumb luck!

    I hope I didn't ramble too long on this. It's my first post, and I've seen how long it is Embarassed ! I hope this kinda helps.
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