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    Canonfire :: View topic - Social Differences of the Baklunish West?
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    Social Differences of the Baklunish West?
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 26, 2002
    Posts: 540
    From: Canada

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    Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:01 pm  
    Social Differences of the Baklunish West?

    The Greyhawk Gazetteer Addendum is almost finished, but I need some advice on the Baklunish West. I don't consider the Baklunish states to be part of the Flanaess proper, except for the Wolf and Tiger Nomads; to me, the Baklunish states are included in the map because a cartographer would not cut off areas that border on the area of the map she is drawing (sort of like how, when a cartographer draws a map of Canada IRL, he will still show the northern United States and part of Alaska.)

    Anyway, I was wondering just how much the Baklunish West differs from the Flanaess. I admit I don't understand Arabic/Middle Eastern cultures all that well (which is what the Baklunish are loosely based on, I imagine) and so would have to go with my best judgement, although some advice from experts would be helpful. Do they have the same kinds of social class and rank? Do the clergy and merchant classes regularly intervene in secular governments? Are women universally oppressed? Do religion and taboos play a much more important role in day-to-day life?

    Again we have the catch of non-human races. My imagination here would be that most of them are rather less common, owing to the lack of forests and mountains or hills in the region.

    Those dwarves and gnomes that do exist would probably be much more insular, and worship versions of their deities that are more in line with the Arabic style than feudal Europe (Corellon Larethian carrying a large bow and curved scimitar instead of a longsword, for instance, and possibly riding a unicorn in the way that the Turkish warriors did in the Middle Ages), while those elves that remain are as much inclined to live in the desert as they are to live in forests. In either case, elves are much more strict and lawful, and engaged in philisophical introspection and reasoning rather than the mysteries of sylvan life and the ether. Instead of viewing magic as something special, they would analyze and research it as scientists do with their studies today. Gnomish plumbing is also developed on a very sophisticated level, as it would have been gnomes and dwarves who excavated the underground water-ways for oases to form. Halflings are more inclined to behave as their human neighbors, but be more laid-back than the outgoing humans. As for humanoids, they are either reviled enemies or revered in a strange manner, perhaps serving as the honor guard to a pasha or a vizier.

    Feedback and suggestions are of course welcome. I'm just testing the waters and trying to get a handle on what works and what might not.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 05, 2002
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    From: Sky Island, So Cal

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    Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:41 pm  

    Wow!
    I didn't know that Turkish warriors rode unicorns in the middle ages!
    Wink
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
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    From: Ullinois

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    Sat Jul 03, 2004 11:02 pm  

    Flanaess. A Flan word for their home region, I wonder if the Flan have a word for the lands to the west? Yeah I'd agree that the Bakluns arent part of the Flanaess, no more than Hepmonaland or Amedio is. But where does Ket belong then? On the fence?

    Anyhoo, if it's any help to your project might I offer using my two part article on Ull's town of Kester for ideas. The areas of Kester, the escarpment and south Ull I based partially on Afghanistan for climate and mood. I intend to do northern Ull and the Ulsprues soon which is more akin to the Paynims with slight differences in attitude.

    Fred Weining did a good article on Zeif in the LGJ #5(?) which inspired me to explore the Baklunish West.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 19, 2004
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    From: Edmonton, Canada

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    Sun Jul 04, 2004 9:11 pm  

    I think if you also refer to the god Al'Akbar and followers in LG you would get a good sense of the religious flavour of the area.
    I also thing you raise an interesting point about the about non-human races and the tendency to make them static through out geography and history, which is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. If humans are a more diverse group should not elves dwarves and the others be so as well? Zief has a larger orc population than other non-human races and Ekbir has a larger halfling population. How are these different than those of more central Flanaess? How is their history different? I think that would be very interesting.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 11, 2001
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    Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:29 am  

    Should non humans be different in the Baklunish lands (or further west for that matter)?

    Good question. On one hand it's probably realistic that non humans should show some of the diversity seen in human cultures.

    On the other hand - why should the non-humans reflect the dominant human culture, unless, like perhaps halflings, they have a lot of interaction with that culture?

    So Correlon wouldn't necessarily have a scimitar for olves of the Bakluni lands.

    I guess what you need to think about is - where the hell did the demihumans come from?
    Are they all from single cultures (eg a big olven homeland somewhere in Far West Oerik) or did they spring up here and there.
    If the former - then Olves would show a lot of similarities where ever they are (local adapations aside).
    If the latter, then they'd be diverse and show more infleunce of the local environment and more local cultral quirks. But that's not to say they'd automatically mirror the dominant human culture.

    P.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
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    Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:53 am  

    You might want to check out module I9: Day of Al'Akbar for a sample city. It has very few non-humans, BTW.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 26, 2002
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    Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:47 am  

    Woesinger wrote:


    I guess what you need to think about is - where the hell did the demihumans come from? Are they all from single cultures (eg a big olven homeland somewhere in Far West Oerik) or did they spring up here and there. If the former - then Olves would show a lot of similarities where ever they are (local adapations aside). If the latter, then they'd be diverse and show more infleunce of the local environment and more local cultral quirks. But that's not to say they'd automatically mirror the dominant human culture.P.


    Well, I think it varies with each race. IMC, I turn the old elves-being-united-at-one-time-but-are-now-seperated-and-dwindlind cliché into half of all the elven race rejecting the teachings of Sehanine Moonbow, who preached that the Olves should avoid the "lesser" races, which are cursed with souls rather than blessed with spirits, as she saw it. Hence, one part of those elves went east over the Solnor Ocean and formed the elven kingdom of Miranda in the far-off continent of Orannia. The other part of the elves who rejected Moonbow went west, passing through the Oriental-style lands. Given that they deliberately rejected elven culture, they would likely pick up on the cultural quirks of the human cultures they settled down into.

    Most of the dwarves, gnomes and halflings more or less appeared where they now live, notwithstanding some great trauma (the destruction of one of the great dwarven homleands by the Invoked Devastation) or other various migrations. Thus they tend to have more cultural uniformity, although how they get along with humans certainly depends on the cultures of the humans themselves.

    Amerindians, or the First Nations of North America, would probably conduct some trade for metal tools and weapons with dwarves as they did with white fur traders in real life, but would otherwise probably prefer to avoid them. Only when a military alliance against orcs or other nations was necessary would they ally, as most of these human people would find the tendency of the dwarves to gouge the oerth and obsess over mineral wealth to be either abhorrent or pointless. On the other hand, they might get along quite well with races who share their way of life-the Iroquois peoples who grew vast fields of corn and wheat would probably have a close friendship with any halflings nearby, and anyone who hunts and lives off the land while showing respect for the oerth would get on well with elves and forest gnomes.

    That, of course, is just an example, and one based off my own imagination of how these peoples would interact. Similar situations might fit in to African, Chinese, Arabic, and other such non-medieval European cultures.

    In any case, thanks a lot for all the feedback. It's certainly much to think about...
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