Fixed a bunch of my typos. Oh no, I never make typos.
Mortellan will handle much of the front page updates, though a few others likely will too. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
I am not in favor of more topics/sections in the forums. I primarily read General Discussion, and I'm not going to go delving into splintered subsectional discussions. Talk about the "tombs". Realistically, most of the sections that seem to be proposed here would be lucky to get 10 posts a month.
If you have an article submission under development, there are already a slew of forums to post it under. If it's rule-specific, there are 6 rule-oriented forums. There's the Reader's Workshop, and as always, General Discussion.
Creating a siloed thread to hold NPC submissions from multiple authors is going to cause confusion (what if it's an NPC in a magic item article? What if I start a different thread?) Anna's thread works because it's Anna's stuff.
As far as a "proposed article" list -- the Oerth Journal has had one for about 15 years now, and no one has ever written an article from it. Make of that what you will.
O my sweet baguettes. I see the new Forty-Thousand Forums protocol has already gone into effect. For the love of Lendor, please move those to the bottom so I don't have to scroll down 3 pages to see the OJ forum?
I think having the ability to "double click" the header and collapse or expand the listing is sufficient to provide access to all listings.
My two pp.
Oh look, clicking on a section header closes -everything- (which means if I want to see two sections they have to take turns), and it resets every time I exit the forums (which means it actually becomes even more annoying!) Hurrah!
Not.
I get the whole LG experiment. I even agree with it (as an experiment). But it should be below the established forums, or made more discrete.
It seems someone loves the new forums. I think the new forums for the most part are to encourage LGG fans to chime in here. I don't really see a big issue with the scrolling down a little further for some of the forums. I think we should see where things end up depending on traffic.
I also thought that the extra scrolling was inconvenient at first, but then I realized that most of the other, larger, forums for other hobbies I frequent have even more subforums listed on their main forums page and require that I scroll quite a bit. I just wasn't used to having to do it on this particular site, so it seemed odd. Now, I don't mind it at all.
Additionally, like Argon, I'm excited about the possibilities of these new regional forums. I really want to see what people will offer and hope that it will make it much easier to find information I need/want from specific regions.
Oh look, clicking on a section header closes -everything- (which means if I want to see two sections they have to take turns), and it resets every time I exit the forums (which means it actually becomes even more annoying!) Hurrah!
Don't worry Galen, I'm not going to darken your door with my noncornformist opinion. I realize my thoughts, dissenting from yours as they do, are unwelcome in this thread, and I appreciate your snarky little italics.
I just skimmed down that folder list, btw, glad to see so many forums taking off! Hope this wild growth continues![/i]
Come off it fellas. We're all friends here. There's no call for making light of someone else's opinion and there's no call for getting defensive either.
I was weak and posted my last new topic in the General Discussionforum when I should have posted it in the Keoland Forum. I was afraid it wouldn't get many responses there and needed the answer to my question quickly. As I said, that was weak of me and I regret making that decision. I'm excitedly looking forward to seeing lots of region/national information being posted in places where it can be easily found. I have no problem with giving these new forums a chance to get started.
Nellisir's concerns are valid, so no one should be making any derogatory statements about them (though disagreement is fine). At the same time, we're all grown-ups (even the young pup, Rumek ) and don't need to lash out disrespectfully if we feel we've been treated with less respect than we're due.
Don't worry Galen, I'm not going to darken your door with my noncornformist opinion. glad to see so many forums taking off! Hope this wild growth continues![/i]
Humm as for darkening my door that may prove difficult, as I always seem to tend toward dark hallways where seldom a shadow be cast.
I do however, think you misunderstand, my suggestion at a "double click" and then a redirect thread were to acknowledge your concerns; offer a solution; and then prose a place where your "nonconformity" could be heard by those that could make such a change.
To better understand your position, I have since read the entire OJ thread, and found it insightful, and informational. I would also make mention notice of your presence there well back to its beginning "(going back into the late volume I issues when Nellisir and Rick LaRue were the principal editors of the OJ)". It was also noted, sporadically in that thread, of a separate webpage dedicated to OJ (guess that died on the vine? Maybe better revisited here since this is a thread on site changes?)
However, the original intent of this thread is not to promote one idea ( ie the meta-regions), but to round-table all. I simply was trying to redirect the thread back toward its original purpose and acknowledge your "nonconformity" vote with a solution.
Personally, I like nonconformity.. (as long as its fact based) it brings out for better debate, and innovation.
cebrion wrote:
Enough of that though. On to more ideas!
In closing, I will leave a candle lit in hopes you will continue to cast a shadow my way dear Nellisir.
I get the whole LG experiment. I even agree with it (as an experiment). But it should be below the established forums, or made more discrete.
I agree. Apparently phpBB does have a Subforum feature, but it has not been implemented on Canonfire! Once Gary gets it implemented, whenever that will be, the LG forums will condense into a single forum main page "Living Greyhawk Forums" header, which when clicked upon will bring one to the fully expanded Meta-regions sections. I may do this with the rules-based forums too, as that will make the main forum page sections more viewable; maybe a few other categories too. Not sure yet, but having to scroll down a bit or left-click once don't exactly require much effort. As you say though, things shouldn't be buried in too many layers. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
I feel like I am wasting my time posting my links or articles in the campaign journal section. I actuall have STOPPED posting in that section.
This whole META REGION forum section is making it that the forums below it are getting ignored, I dont even bother to scroll down to view them and I am running a 24" monitor. So I can tell you that someone with anything smaller that a 20" wont be either.
Create another website for the META REGIONS or better yet just use the WIKI and have one subforum for it.
I agree. Apparently phpBB does have a Subforum feature, but it has not been implemented on Canonfire! Once Gary gets it implemented, whenever that will be, the LG forums will condense into a single forummain page "Living Greyhawk Forums" header, which when clicked upon will bring one to the fully expanded Meta-regions sections...
or better yet just use the WIKI and have one subforum for it.
that's an interesting angle.. but wouldn't it require everyone having write access to the wiki? as it is set up? Doesn't everyone have to specifically have to request access to do that? In a forum setting that may be counter productive. Though, if in the Wiki it would be a great cross-reference...
But admittedly I'm am ignorant as to how the wiki is maintained.... as I generally use it only as a reference tool.
But you also have an awesome blog so I can still get my campaign update fix that way as well. I would agree after a few weeks the LG forums do require a lot of extra scrolling. Luckily there is a fix for that. So maybe some time soon this will be a thing of the past and the LG forums will be condensed more so they don't make scrolling down such a bothersome task.
I was actual wondering if my Bissel campaign updates should be moved to the LG Bissel forum. Not that I'm using all the information contained from the LG Bissel triads, just I wanted to make it seem like there was some Bissel info in there. It looks real empty.
Hopefully we can get some ex triad members to start posting in these forums. Then maybe they won't seem like a chore when scrolling past them.
Hopefully we can get some ex triad members to start posting in these forums.
@ All, but based on Argon's query
Is there a place / or method that that could be "done" or do we wait and hope that they "just happen along and find CF and those areas?
Also, as many are less than pleased with the current arrangement, I am reluctant to bring up that the "lists" are not complete. I would think there would also be sub-categories in the appropriate regions for :
Sterrich (unless id as grouped with Geoff, Keoland, or The Yeomary)
Wild Coast- Pomarj, Celene
The Wilderness- Amedio, Sea of Dust, Black Ice
The Barbarian Hordes- Tiger/ Wolf Nomads, Ice/Frost/Snow barbarians
There are other examples, but as I seem to be the only one with the "aye vote" I am reluctant to suggest adding to a list that many feel is already too long.
In debated defense of it however, I personally don't see that scrolling down is a show stopper. There are MANY other sites that one has to scroll further or go SEVERAL layers deep to find anything. And not to take away anything from the threads below "the List", is it not the purpose of the "forums section" to debate, round-table and grow ideas, in mass? I would think that "we" would wish to supply the masses (those that may not frequent the site as often as "members") to be able to find useful data quickly based on their own campaign flavors. And by finding such, they in fact become "members" (just as I did) and even become Staff (as many of you now are) because they have found a useful site they wish to become "henchmen" with.
The threads below "the list", while very useful, are not the primary source of traffic nor contribution from the masses. There are FAR more Posts and even GREATER reader review from the combination of General, Rules, & now Region than OJ, Online & Admin.
Now if it is the intent to "build the Ezine" as the primary piece, then I am sorry as I miss understood the "big picture goal". As I tend to be a very "left brained" engineer I always think with the end in mind and work back from that. My position has always been to make the most complete "one stop shopping" for all things greyhawk since it has been orphaned by those who "own" it.
SO I close with this.
All of you, (Gary, Cebrion, MS, Argon, DH, Nellisir, Rasgon, and I'm certain others that elude me this late hour) are our Circle of 8 or Conclave of Wizards & Knights (as you will) The most we the masses can do is supply and support.
Though Cebrion acted on the execution, it was (IMO) my comments that he acted on.
I read in much of your collective OJ postings how you can't create a viable monthly or quarterly component due to lack of resources and or participation. (which IMO is regrettable, because it is great work and would be improved if it could find stable ground in regular timing issuance)
By creating a more complete "raw material source", via the forums, does that not create a better well to drink from? Is it not the best way, to recruit more support, by having a deeper well to draw from?
And with that I yield to the faith and trust we the mass bestow to you the honored Circle.
Don’t get me wrong I think that having the META REGION AREA is needed, as whole I think that the information stored on CANONFIRE needs to be more structured.
BUT I do think that a FORUM structure is the wrong approach I believe that a WIKI is better suited option.
What I would propose is two WIKI's one that few have access to so that order is maintained and a semblance of order is maintained WRT to layout, grammar, spelling etc.
Then we have a secondary WIKI where everyone that wishes to contribute to has access via his on logon details.
Then maybe a SharePoint server would maybe be a better solution where it would track the user and changes made, that is something I could setup and host of one of my won servers if required.
There are multitude of different options that can be used. Google Sites, Google Documents (shared) It is matter of planning and taking the right approach going forward.
I would also suggest that Canonfire Website be backed up to an offsite location or replicated to another server or ghosted. These is crucial to circumvent loss of data should the site corrupt or be lost.
Again I have the means to do this, as I am sure Gary has.
BUT I do think that a FORUM structure is the wrong approach I believe that a WIKI is better suited option.
Humm I can see the logic on one hand yet on the other a forum is the closest thing you could have for a symbiotic discussion short of an IM or Chat situation (such as Greytalk). So I can see the benifits and pitfalls of both. Like you it is a question of structure and overall "business model goals" that we hope to achieve.
DarkHerald wrote:
What I would propose is two WIKI's one that few have access to so that order is maintained and a semblance of order is maintained WRT to layout, grammar, spelling etc. Then we have a secondary WIKI where everyone that wishes to contribute to has access via his on logon details.
Interesting, but as I am more old school (bulletin board hehe) what are the security risks and pitfalls to protect everyone's hard work and effort? I don't mind the EXTRA step of having to enter Oerth if that is what it takes to keep the site secure, no more than I mind to scroll a bit if that provides a way to separate the regions into more user accessible elements based on a campaign flavor.
DarkHerald wrote:
Then maybe a SharePoint server would maybe be a better solution where it would track the user and changes made, that is something I could setup and host of one of my won servers if required.
There are multitude of different options that can be used. Google Sites, Google Documents (shared) It is matter of planning and taking the right approach going forward.
True and good ideas all. But would that bring the site "down for a transition? or to mirror? Personally I'm not well versed enough to know the "behind the scenes" elements that are in place to create the "window dressings" we now have. As I have read here, seems there are limits to the depth of thread and Big C and Gary are at work to make even other options. I suppose time would tell, but you bring to light a valid point as to maybe the "Conclave" should take an accountancy of resources available / needed to grow CF/Greyhawk? I probably think it may be over stepping my bounds to get into "conclave" decision processes. But as mentioned in other threads.. that is just my "orifice talking" hehe
DarkHerald wrote:
I would also suggest that Canonfire Website be backed up to an offsite location or replicated to another server or ghosted. These is crucial to circumvent loss of data should the site corrupt or be lost.
Again I have the means to do this, as I am sure Gary has.
I have often wondered on this part, as I have extensively researched elements for my own revived campaign. I have found numerous site links elsewhere (and mentioned here), of good reference material, only to find it lost to the abyss, as the link is no longer viable and the information lost. I would be despaired, if to awake one day to find the shortcut to CF, and the site no longer existed.. Would be a great well run dry.
The new regional forums are dreadful. It reminds me of the old Pied Piper board, with its bajillion forums and no discussion. I really like the idea of making a home for LG and encouraging discussion, but sifting through dozens of forums to see if someone posted something interesting today sucks.
We're hardly bursting with discussion as it is and certainly not enough to warrant thirty-three new forums. Our main WoG forum only had/has a handful of threads being discussed on any given day and for years it was very convenient to go see all of the hot topics with one click.
Dividing GH into a multitude of regions worked for LG because they had thousands of gamers and a corporate sponsor! Applying its model to a forum with a hundred regulars is ridiculous.
Something should be done for LG, maybe a wiki, but the new forums are a verschlimmbesserung - an improvement for the worse. A subforum would help organize the current mess, but won't fix the problem.
Something should be done for LG, maybe a wiki, but the new forums are a verschlimmbesserung - an improvement for the worse. A subforum would help organize the current mess, but won't fix the problem.
Alle Sachen können verbessert werden.......(I like the German touch Vestcoat .. are you a Perrinlander in disguise?)
I don't see a "mess" but actually the first step in "organizing" as you put it.. The "mess" was having to comb through hundreds if not thousands of threads of discussion, posts, etc. to find elements that would pertain to the part of the GH World you wish to find. I don't know how many times I have heard... "I know there is a thread discussing this somewhere". This seems a reasonable first step. I would compare it to "why" don't we just have one "rules forum" and sort through that which we need to fill a question around 2e or 4e game rule interpretations for instance?
All of this debate would seem to say, What is the End Goal ?
>If it is to be a repository of LG glorydays and treasured info, then Certainly a Wiki would be better served...
>If it is to be a discussion on where those regions could move forward past canon and published works (as I am aware there is not much past say 585-591) but in line with the theme of the past, then IMO that requires discussion. And is that not the definition of "forum"?
But even this round-tabled debate serves us all.
And I thank your position and input.
May it guide those with the "purple" power. (or is it red now... seems like I read that somewhere)hehe
but sifting through dozens of forums to see if someone posted something interesting today sucks.
As this was Originally intended as a "new ideas" thread that has developed into a good debate on future directions of structure, I would divert slightly to this....
Meant to chyme in on this on the last, But vestcoat does bring a good idea to light.
Is it possible to have a link that would list all the current posts over a range?
Then the user could set a range to a day or two or week (could see where a search of unlimited ends would overwhelm the search criteria).
Right now I utilize a search based on my own posts, and other favorite authors but the new or less frequent I have to glean via the New field along the side of the forums lists.
The your posts & unanswered kinda do this but not if the thread has replied elements. (it seems)
Be careful you might lose your Paladin status! I understand the frustration of all the extra scrolling, but I think we need some more time before we doom the new forums. I would say if you have any questions related to LG post them in the proper forum. ie: What was King Belvor first name in LG and who was his father?
DLG,
Be careful you might lose your Paladin status!
Now what kind of Paladin would I be if I were in fear of traveling where angel's fear to tread? Besides, as they say in Alagaesia "One part brave, Three parts fool".
As my English professor always had said, I loved a good debate too much. I hope to kindle such a fire that all might see and be warmed. And one only gets a good fire by stirring the embers to flame.
It has come to my attention (because of recently trying to do it) that there is no means to "upload" a file only to link one to a web location. How difficult is it to create a "spot" to capture uploaded materials for review and eventual posting in say the "downloads" shortcut on the header?
The Lgg forums are a good idea. Though after this length of time I think we could consolidate the forums into one LGG forum. Open the forum and then discuss your region. Hopefully, it expands after some time. I Just think some gems may need some additional polishing. Though that takes time.
The Lgg forums are a good idea. Though after this length of time I think we could consolidate the forums into one LGG forum. Open the forum and then discuss your region. Hopefully, it expands after some time. I Just think some gems may need some additional polishing. Though that takes time.
Just a "Resurrection" bump on this thread as the New Year is upon us.
I still am of the opinion that this would be a good tool, but "we", currently, are comfortable with the arrangements as they are.
The LGG Forum Sub-categories seem better suited to a repository of former LGG materials and reduced (as Argon suggests).
First, most newer members are not familiar with the LGG subsections and so questions around differing regions still appear in the general discussions. ie the most recent being questions about ToEE and the Horned Society just to name a few.
While it would require a change in the community culture to list these in their proper regions (thus making it a better regional research tool in the long run) the current choice is general it would seem.
It is my continued hope we would make these categories not only a reference for former LGG materials, but a stomping ground for new ideas dedicated to those regions specifics, thus aiding DMs with interest in a specific region.
On to 2013 New Ideas
Perhaps a forum listing for support software's under "special projects"?
In today's electronic age, there are lots of software to support the gamer. I realize that there have been submissions of various spreadsheets, etc. this could be one place to gather all in one spot and to discuss various other commercial ones, such as Herolab, D20pro, Fantasy Grounds, etc. _________________ It is by will alone I set my die in motion.....It is by gaming that thoughts acquire speed.....The hands acquire shaking..... The shaking becomes a warning......It is by will alone I set my die in motion....
I know this might add to the Administrators' responsibilities, but I wonder if it would be a good policy to allow regional queries to begin in the General Discussion forum, then, when they have remained unattended long enough to drop off the first page, they could be moved to the forum for the appropriate region. Thus, while they are a current hot topic, they stay where the greatest number of members/visitors can see them, but when they are old news, anyone looking for such esoteric bits of information will know just what regional forum to go looking for them in.
Something similar: Canonfire! grognards could suggest to new ones the appropriate forum for their question -- after it's originally posted, of course -- and then after this suggestion was made and an appropriate length of time went by -- so the original poster could "see" the suggestion -- the Admin could move the post to the appropriate forum.
Agreed...We can't put all the burden on Big C... we could help mediate that change in the community...
As I tell my players all the time
Silence is Consent
The Lgg forums are a good idea. Though after this length of time I think we could consolidate the forums into one LGG forum. Open the forum and then discuss your region. Hopefully, it expands after some time. I Just think some gems may need some additional polishing. Though that takes time.
Just a "Resurrection" bump on this thread as the New Year is upon us.
I still am of the opinion that this would be a good tool, but "we", currently, are comfortable with the arrangements as they are.
The LGG Forum Sub-categories seem better suited to a repository of former LGG materials and reduced (as Argon suggests).
First, most newer members are not familiar with the LGG subsections and so questions around differing regions still appear in the general discussions. ie the most recent being questions about ToEE and the Horned Society just to name a few.
While it would require a change in the community culture to list these in their proper regions (thus making it a better regional research tool in the long run) the current choice is general it would seem.
It is my continued hope we would make these categories not only a reference for former LGG materials, but a stomping ground for new ideas dedicated to those regions specifics, thus aiding DMs with interest in a specific region.
Unfortunately they will stay as they are; as to arrange them as we really want to will require switching from php.nuke to something else altogether. That means a total rebuilding of the site, which is probably what will happen...whenever Gary gets the wild hare to do so.
Dark_Lord_Galen wrote:
Argon Sat Jul 14, 2012 wrote:
On to 2013 New Ideas
Perhaps a forum listing for support software's under "special projects"?
In today's electronic age, there are lots of software to support the gamer. I realize that there have been submissions of various spreadsheets, etc. this could be one place to gather all in one spot and to discuss various other commercial ones, such as Herolab, D20pro, Fantasy Grounds, etc.
Canonfire! has purposely not had advertisements for such things, though adding advertisements has been discussed. If advertisements were to be added to the site, it would be for the purpose of revenue collection to pay for server fees and any other operational costs. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Unfortunately they will stay as they are; as to arrange them as we really want to will require switching from php.nuke to something else altogether. That means a total rebuilding of the site, which is probably what will happen...whenever Gary gets the wild hare to do so.
I recall there was some discussions around that and that there was a "layering/ sub-category levels" limit? Personally I'm good with it, just at a loss as to how to lure those old LGG groupies back to the nest?
Cebrion wrote:
Canonfire! has purposely not had advertisements for such things, though adding advertisements has been discussed. If advertisements were to be added to the site, it would be for the purpose of revenue collection to pay for server fees and any other operational costs.
Though my intent was not going in that direction (more on that in a bit) If it were a simple way to generate revenue for site support,,,, Great!
I was referring more to a "consumer report" rendition, as you point out the site has remained "neutral" to all of that and as such, many could prose constructive opinions, critiques, experiences they may have or way to implement those elements in-support of their GH game. This may help others in determining an informed choice or overcome some obstical with a fresh perspective. It would not have to be limited to just commercial softwares. Person A may have an app that randomizes dice rolls, etc. or person B may need a dwarvish to Elvish translator,, etc It could be a starting off point & converse starter for the repository of electronic support files.
my 2cp
Lol! We're all such incredible nerds. Our love of gaming will never be accepted by mainstream society.
SirXaris
SirXaris wrote:
What? I thought we were "mainstream!?"
Maybe alittle!!
Actually my wife would say its my Anal-retentive nature showing again....
As for the rest of the world... through the "miricale" that is U-tube, Americas' (or Britian for that matter) got talent, singing , blah blah, or the pinicale of hidden geekdom FANTASY FOOTBALL, I've always felt they all have their "inner- PC" hiding somewhere.. it is up to us to bring them to the light!!!
...Unfortunately they will stay as they are; as to arrange them as we really want to will require switching from php.nuke to something else altogether...
-Hmmm... that php.nuke thing is the gift that keeps giving, huh?
Yes, it would seem so. php.nuke is easy to use, but there are some areas where it is lacking. At this point it is getting dated, so a full-on site revamp is probably what will end up happening (hopefully sooner rather than later) .
As to various products, apps, etc., it would be fine to review such things in the Published Material Reviews & Discussion forum, and perhaps we could change that forum name to "Published Material/Product Reviews & Discussion" instead to highlight that aspect of it. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Yit would be fine to review such things in the Published Material Reviews & Discussion forum, and perhaps we could change that forum name to "Published Material/Product Reviews & Discussion" instead to highlight that aspect of it.
I like the idea of Meta-Regions with a sub-category for specific countries.
I have some Living Greyhawk material to share. One question though, are we permitted to share Living Greyhawk material on this site or does it all belong to WotC and we are not allowed to make it open to everyone?
P.S. The region directly west of Greyhawk should not have the name of Iuz in the title -- that guy is just plain evil. It should be called "The Benevolent zone of Furyondy and some other minor players". _________________ Richard Di Ioia (aka Longetalos)
I have some Living Greyhawk material to share. One question though, are we permitted to share Living Greyhawk material on this site or does it all belong to WotC and we are not allowed to make it open to everyone?
It is my understanding that WotC owns all the material for the first two years of Living Greyhawk. After that, they allowed the authors to keep the rights to the works. Therefore, as long as the authors give permission, years 3-8 are free material. You'll have to ask someone else where to get that legal verification, however. That's just what I've heard on this website.
Quote:
P.S. The region directly west of Greyhawk should not have the name of Iuz in the title -- that guy is just plain evil. It should be called "The Benevolent zone of Furyondy and some other minor players".
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) and don't need to lash out disrespectfully if we feel we've been treated with less respect than we're due.
On to 2013 New Ideas 
