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    Canonfire :: View topic - Blessed Watchfulness vs. Surprise
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Blessed Watchfulness vs. Surprise
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:13 pm  
    Blessed Watchfulness vs. Surprise

    Just want to clarify something that I can foresee on the horizon, and could surely use your collective wisdom:

    According to the Spells & Magic 1st lvl priest (Guardian Sphere) spell called Blessed Watchfulness, it takes a 1 to surprise the recipient under the effects of this dweomer.

    Does this mean that only a 1, regardless of the stealth ability, innate powers, perhaps even an Invisibility spell, of opponents?

    For instance, some creatures (like troglodytes, with their chameleon ability, or bugbears, with their stealth) have enhanced chances to surprise their foes. Also, there are spells like Invisibility, or magic items like Rings of Chameleon Power and Cloaks of Elvenkind, that provide similar advantages.

    Sooooo...how do you interpret this spell with respect to these situations? Shouldn't the enhanced stealth factors noted above come into play? Or is the power of this minor 1st lvl spell 'powerful' enough to counteract any and all enhanced stealth powers, abilities, and magics?

    Your thoughts?

    -Lanthorn


    Last edited by Lanthorn on Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 10, 2003
    Posts: 1234
    From: New Jersey

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    Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:53 pm  

    Lanthorn,

    If we go by the spells description alone, than yes only on a 1 is the individual surprised. Now here is were a ruling can come into affect. I would either rule it heightens ones ability to notice something is not right (ala spiderman's spider sense). See it gives them a warning but does not show them the source. So a player under the effect of the spell can halve their enemies chances of surprising them (spider sense tingles, but where is the danger coming from).

    Later

    Argon
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:52 am  

    As a fellow Spidey fan, I can appreciate that analogy.

    I see this conundrum resolved in one of two different manners, though I am open to suggestions:

    1) The power of this minor, 1st lvl spell is enough to overcome any and all types of stealth abilities, powers, or magical effects. The recipient can only be surprised on a 1, no matter what.

    2) Take the difference between the two, thereby allowing the spell's effect to reduce the enhanced surprise ability (basically, a reduction of about 17%, I believe).
    Ex: Trogs can surprise most normal folk on a 1-4 out of 6 chance. A character under the effects of Blessed Watchfulness is surprised on a 1-3 instead.

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

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    Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:43 pm  

    Sure, there are animals, demons and "creatures" with "natural" abilities. There are even Drow, in the "dark places" of the Oerth. And then there's the Invisibility spell. So, I go with it like this:

    On a roll of 1, the PC knows nothing, the PC notices nothing.

    Less than a roll of 1 and the PC is aware that something is wrong but, perhaps, nothing more than that. As in: This spell does not negate Invisibility.

    Sure, you're not "surprised," you're alert and ready for anything, but . . .

    You still can't see the invisible creature, nor -- possibly -- know from what direction the creature is "attacking." So, for me, there would still be some surprise -- as in, the attacking creature has the initiative.

    "But Mystic, it's a Divine spell!"

    Sure it is, but the spell does not give you the ability of your "god." Only "Pelor" is omniscient, "you" are not. And no spell will give "you" that power. So, even using Blessed Watchfulness, "you" will still suffer some "surprise."

    That's how I'd play it. Wink
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:24 pm  

    Modifiers do not apply. The spell effectively reduces surprise to a 1 in 10 chance only.
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:54 pm  

    Cebrion wrote:
    Modifiers do not apply. The spell effectively reduces surprise to a 1 in 10 chance only.


    Wow, that's still darned good! Especially considering all the sample examples I've given (creatures with enhanced suprise ability, etc.). And the fact that this is merely only one benefit of the spell... Shocked This is one POTENT first lvl clerical spell.

    Oh, isn't it a 1 in 6 (instead of 10)? Just looked at the book, and all it says is "In fact, it takes a roll of 1 to surprise someone..." Or did I overlook something (obvious)?

    thanks, Ceb.

    -Lanthorn
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:00 am  

    You probably are forgetting the obvious bit that 2E uses a d10 for Surprise while 1E uses a d6. Razz

    But, then I thought, "Some game editions word certain things oddly sometimes, so I better look at everything closely again."

    Having now done that, I will revise my statement and say that modifiers do apply. Surprise happens on a d10 roll of 1, 2, or 3. This of course does not mean that surprise only happens on a natural roll of those numbers, otherwise their would be no modifiers table. The same language is used for both Surprise and for the spell, so I would think that modifiers would have to apply. Besides, this is only a 1st level spell, which I think needs to be taken into account too. For some reason I was thinking that the spell is of higher level (probably confusing it with unceasing vigilance of the holy sentinel).

    So, in effect, Blessed Watchfulness gives the recipient a +2 bonus in their favor for Surprise rolls, they being surprised on a "roll" of 1 rather than of 1, 2, or 3 (after modifiers have been applied). Considering the other benefits of this 1st level spell, it is pretty dang good without a set 1-in-10, which the recipient will still get unless the enemy actually does have some form of invisibility, stealth, etc. modifier in their favor.
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:37 am; edited 1 time in total
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:04 am  

    Cebrion wrote:
    You probably are forgetting the obvious bit that 2E uses a d10 for Surprise while 1E uses a d6. Razz.


    Yup, that's what I forgot! Confused

    OK, I appreciate your looking more closely into that, Ceb. I was thinking that it was a bit...much...for a 1st lvl spell, which also grants additional benefits in addition to reduced chances for surprise.

    Glad I inquired, and thanks for your helpful, investigative answer.

    -Lanthorn
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