I am under the impression that casting a Slow spell upon a person affected by a Fly spell will not have any effect in reducing the rate of actual flight (still an 18) but WILL slow down their physical movement otherwise. The reason I say this is b/c the Fly spell works on speed and clarity of thought, not physical action.
The same would hold true for a Levitating person upon whom a Slow is cast.
Slow affects movement rates in general. The fly spell has a movement rate, so it is affected. If a levitating beholder can be slowed, and a flying air elemental can be slowed, and creatures that use magical flight as they normal movement can be slowed, so will a mage/whatever using a fly spell. Slow isn't dependent upon some sort of physical factor. It just slows stuff down, however it is moving. There is no "body parts must be moving to generate the movement" requirement at all. The spell will work on an air elemental or levitating beholder as much as it will work on a flying mage (got another bird or two with that stone, I hope ).
The only movement that a slow spell will not affect is the mentally generated movement on the Astral Plane, but that is specifically mentioned in "A Guide to the Astral Plane", p. 20, and it specifically states that slow does not work on this particular form of movement as the slow spell does not affect the mind. We will note that a slow spell does not affect Initiative at all (i.e. how quickly a target is able to act), as that is mental, but just its capability to move/act at its full speed/capability.
Now, before you say "But the movement for the fly spell is mentally controlled too, so slow doesn't affect those under the effects of a fly spell.", that statement is not quite the same thing. Mental control of movement, whether it be flying, magical flying, levitation, walking, crawling, running, whatever, is a very different thing than mental generation of movement. If a slow spell doesn't affect fly because it is mentally controlled, then the slow spell doesn't affect any other form of movement either, as all movement is mentally controlled. If you were to have a slow spell that affects things on the Astral Plane, it would be called slow mind, and its movement altering effects mostly be very specific to the Astral Plane.
So, sorry to say, but your fly spell is affected by a slow spell. That's my take on it anyways. Pretty good question, as it is not covered very well, or even very obviously. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Cebrion, I am glad you chimed in, for you always offer good suggestions and counters.
I am puzzled, then, by this statement about the spell description: "It negates a Haste spell or equivalent, but does not otherwise affect magically speeded or slowed creatures."
Since the Fly spell affects movement with magic, I interpret that statement to mean that people under the effects of a Fly spell are NOT impeded by a Slow spell.
Or does that statement only apply to things like Boots of Speed (or Striding and Springing) and the like...and not to a Fly spell??? If so, what about Wings of Flying?
Also, curious about this Guide of which you speak...is it an actual book, or an entry in a Dragon Magazine? I will also look in Manual of the Planes for a possible lead too.
I am puzzled, then, by this statement about the spell description: "It negates a Haste spell or equivalent, but does not otherwise affect magically speeded or slowed creatures."
Since the Fly spell affects movement with magic, I interpret that statement to mean that people under the effects of a Fly spell are NOT impeded by a Slow spell.
Or does that statement only apply to things like Boots of Speed (or Striding and Springing) and the like...and not to a Fly spell???
Ding! Ding! Ding! That last one! We have a winner! Also, fly doesn't enhance existing movement- it grants an additional movement mode, and therefore it does not meet the requirements of the exception, while something like a jump spell does.
Lanthorn wrote:
If so, what about Wings of Flying?
That is just another movement mode, not an increase in basic speed that isn't a haste spell, so wings of flying are slowed too.
Lanthorn wrote:
Also, curious about this Guide of which you speak...is it an actual book, or an entry in a Dragon Magazine? I will also look in Manual of the Planes for a possible lead too.
Manual of the Planes mentions little, but it does mention a kernel of what I refer to. As to the book I am referring to, during the 2E era, there was this thing called PLANESCAPE that was put out by TSR. I am thinking that you might, just might, have heard of PLANESCAPE. In support of PLANESCAPE, TSR unleashed a hefty amount of source books detailing the various planes. The PLANESCAPE books have much better info on the planes than the 1E Manual of the Planes does, and, more importantly in your case, they are 2E rules. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Last edited by Cebrion on Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:39 am; edited 3 times in total
Hey, even if you slow down the flyer, he will often move faster flying then walking. In any case one can swing things in either direction based on their definition on how the spell works.
Ceb, once more your logical arguments and articulate counters have me convinced. Thank you, sir, for answering my post point-by-point. I appreciate your linear-sequential format (you're not of German descent are you?! My old college roomie was from 'the Old Country' and was very organized, even in his conversations, and now, in his emails from abroad to me). Of course, I am sure there will be more to come, so keep your eyes peeled...
OK, so while we are talking about the Slow spell here, wanna find out how many of you DMs think that characters should incur a 4 pt penalty to dodge certain spell effects (such as lightning bolts or fireballs), or effects from a wand or ray, that permit Dex adjustments.
I do, even if I don't think it mentions it 'in the rules.'
I am all for house rules like that when the DM and players think it makes play more fun. Such rules add realism to the game and if the participants in the campaign enjoy that type of addition, then it is great.
The players will only like the addition, however, if it is applied to their opponents as well as to them. Which means that, as DM, you need to be prepared for your players to take full advantage of such house rules. They will begin to load up on Slow spells and magic items like wands that cast such spells. So, you may have to alter such rules occasionally for balance.
OK, so while we are talking about the Slow spell here, wanna find out how many of you DMs think that characters should incur a 4 pt penalty to dodge certain spell effects (such as lightning bolts or fireballs), or effects from a wand or ray, that permit Dex adjustments.
I do, even if I don't think it mentions it 'in the rules.'
Anyone else?
-Lanthorn
The rules do mention this. The slow spell kills off any combat Dexterity bonuses, and that includes the dodge bonus for having a high Dexterity. I don't think they made it a straight penalty because then the slow spell would be particularly brutal on targets that "only" have a Dexterity of 14 or less (which is going to be most targets).
"Oh, and my mage doesn't bother to wait for the cleric to cast a combination of curse, prayer, etc., as slow does so much better of a job when it comes to my follow-up spells, those being fireball, lightning bolt, cone of cold, disintegrate, and so on."
Based on the above example, if the slow imposed a flat dodge penalty, it would simply be too good. It already chops movement and attacks in half, penalizes Initiative by 2 and AC and THAC0 by 4, and removes any Dexterity dodge bonuses (regardless of how high they may be), if a target has them. And there is a -4 penalty to save vs. slow to begin with. Not exactly a crappy spell there.
I wouldn't rule slow as imposing a flat dodge penalty, but just leave it as it is (which is quite good enough). _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
SX, any house rules that I include do go both ways! IMC, what is good for the goose, is good for the gander!
Cebrion, I have grappled with the imposition of a 4 pt penalty to dodging spell effects for those who are Slowed, but do realize that the spell already negates any Dex bonuses. I suppose if I did add a 4 pt penalty, it would only be 'fair' to allow high Dex to offset that consequence.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises
).
In support of PLANESCAPE, TSR unleashed a hefty amount of source books detailing the various planes. The PLANESCAPE books have much better info on the planes than the 1E Manual of the Planes does, and, more importantly in your case, they are 2E rules.