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    Canonfire :: View topic - Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 1st Edition
    Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth
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    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2701
    From: LG Dyvers

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    Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:00 am  

    I agree with Ceb. Drelnza should not be bound to the chamber, or even the caverns. After all, that is what I mentioned having done with her originally in my own campaign. Wink

    SirXaris
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:25 am  

    Ceb, SX, good ideas. I like it. I can see your point about her not remaining in her old lair given its compromised position. The only reason I suggested having her Geased by Iggwilv is that I don't think the malevolent old witch would give her 'guardian' freewill. After all, she was a summoner and binder of fiends; I don't foresee her having any more goodwill to her daughter when it came to enforcing her desires and guarding her treasure. She doesn't strike me as the 'motherly' sort. Wink

    Would you still have the teleportation nexus working? Or do you think the magical effect is somehow tied to the presence of Iggwilv's treasure?

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:19 pm  

    I don't think Iggwilv even needed Drelnza there to protect her treasures. After all, she left the Xeg Ya and Xeg Yi for that purpose. I think that she probably simply made a deal with Drelnza or offered her something in exchange for staying on as an extra guard. In fact, guarding Iggwilv's treasures was probably only a secondary effect of Drelnza's purpose for being there.

    What you need to decide, then is why Drelnza wanted to stay in the caverns. It was certainly a safe place for her to lair. If she was free to come and go as she chose, she could wander without fearing that her coffin would be discovered and destroyed by some random group of adventurers. (Well, anything is possible. Razz ) She would be close enough to Perrenland, Ket, Veluna, and the High Vale to sate her evil lusts or involve herself in political power games as she wished. She may even have simply felt comfortable there, if that was where she was raised by her mother (or her mother's fiendish servants Evil Grin ). I see no reason for Drelnza not to be free to come and go as she wishes.

    Maybe, Iggwilv promised her power and treasure in her will. Razz

    SirXaris
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:08 am  

    I have a totally different perspective on Drelnza. Although I am not really sure if she became a vampire purposefully or not (maybe forced into vampdom by her mother), I take the stance that Drelnza is but a pawn in her mother's grander schemes and machinations. To me, Iggwilv compelled (magically) her daughter to serve as her 'guardian' over her treasure. The two alien creatures are relatively minor compared to the powers that Drelnza herself can muster. Additionally, these creatures don't even appear unless the PCs actually manage to find and retrieve the items deeper in the slab. To me, that is telling as to their 'lesser' status as protectors of Iggwilv's largesse.

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:05 pm  

    I agree that it is quite reasonable that Iggwilv could have forced her daughter into servitude. However, it is not a sure thing. Drelnza is a 13th level fighter in her own right, after all. Nothing to threaten her mother, but more than a simple patsy. She must have been given either great responsibility/command in her mother's power structure or great freedom to seek her own power in order to attain such as she possesses. For Drelnza to now be compelled against her wishes to serve as a guardian for her mother's treasure would require quite an explanation. There may have been a falling out between the two, but I doubt Iggwilv would have simply betrayed her daughter to gain a powerful guardian for her treasure. If her daughter had been a valuable servant up to such a point, why risk her ire just to force her to guard her treausres. Surely, Iggwilv could summon a demon or three to serve that purpose. Seems more likely that the two struck an accord convenient to them both.

    But, it's your campaign. Just be sure the reason is believable to your intelligent player. Wink

    SirXaris
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:12 pm  

    With respect to binding a 13th lvl vampire warrior...if Iggwilv can dominate Grazz't, an Abyssal Lord, for a time, I think that Drelnza would be a much simpler...

    However, you speak with logic about a potential deal brokered between witch-mother and deadly daughter. Drelnza's very high experience lvls do leave one wondering how she attained such power, and it does stand to reason she could've served as Iggwilv's lieutenant/general during her reign over Perrenland. This is not out of the realm of possibility, and thus, one could postulate a possible 'agreement' between the two Evil women.

    The door for possibilities is open.

    If anyone reading this has information pertinent to the background or history of Drelnza, it would be very welcome. All is know is that she is purported to be the daughter of Iggwilv and Lerrek (yes, before his lichdom).

    -Lanthorn


    Last edited by Lanthorn on Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:39 am  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    All is know is that she is purported to be the daughter of Iggwilv and Lerrek (yes, before his lichdom).


    Well, according to the Twilight Saga, it may be possible for a lich to conceive... Razz

    SirXaris ducks and runs.
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:38 am  

    SirXaris wrote:
    Well, according to the Twilight Saga, it may be possible for a lich to conceive... Razz

    SirXaris ducks and runs.


    AAAAAAHHHH!!! Shocked Laughing

    I don't think that such 'essence' would 'keep' that long...but I guess at least it would be chilled. Razz

    Now we know the truth of SirXaris. Next he'll tell us he watches Barney instead of Jurassic Park, and prefers Harry Potter to the Lord of the Rings trilogy (my wife and I are still at an impasse at that one). Wink

    -Lanthorn

    [Keep 'em comin', 'Xaris. I guess you've been reading from the Argon Book o' Puns lately.]
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:46 pm  

    I've taken my 13 year old daughter to see each of the first three Twilight episodes, so I've seen them. She saw the last one without me, though, so I have yet to see the ending. I just can't bring myself to walk into that movie alone. Razz

    Alas, much to my dismay, I can't seem to convince her that real vampires don't sparkle. Neutral

    SirXaris
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:57 pm  

    Another query:

    How well do you all think Drelnza knows the extent of the maze that is the Lost Caverns?

    For instance, do you all think she knows there is another way out of the Lower Caverns via the chamber that has become the lair of the dracolisk (Room 16 of the Lower Caverns).

    thanks,

    Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:02 pm  

    My simple answer would be 'yes'.

    That's because, in my campaign, Drelza would have been raised in these caverns and so quite familiar with them. Besides, that secret door is a minor secret compared to those I would expect Iggwilv to keep from her powerful daughter.

    SirXaris
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 1490
    From: Wichita, KS, USA

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    Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:51 pm  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    How well do you all think Drelnza knows the extent of the maze that is the Lost Caverns?

    For instance, do you all think she knows there is another way out of the Lower Caverns via the chamber that has become the lair of the dracolisk (Room 16 of the Lower Caverns).


    I think that depends on your vision of the Caverns themselves---were they mostly the way they are presented in the module while Iggwilv occupied them? Or, are some of the various entrances and exits more-recent additions (like the umber hulk tunnel, the pech tunnel, the sinkhole perhaps) while others were more permanent features (the river exits, the Great Cavern)? Up to you to decide :D
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