I'm curious as to how people use drow in Greyhawk. I know that the race is relatively unknown as compared to the Realms. What about the gods that are worshipped....Lolth and other demons for a more Greyhawk feel, or do some of you use the other drow deities as well?
And, what about locations? Are they primarily under the Hell Furnaces in the Vault?
Thanks for any input. I vaguely know how I will use them but I'm trying to see how others use them to maybe get a few new ideas.
It's quite likely that most people don't give the drow much prominence in their GH campaigns, if they do at all. I personally think it'd be a nifty idea to have the drow used as bogeymen used by parents to scare their chidlren into obeying:
Don't wander into the woods, or the drow will get you!
Stop crying, or the drow will hear you!
Eat your dinner, or I'll tell the drow!
Things like that. Even the surface elves tend to think of the drow in this manner, given that the conflict happened longer ago than the memories of even the gray elves, who can live for almost 1,500 years, according to the 1E DMG. Individuals like the Slave Lords, Mordenkainen, Overking Xavener, Iuz, and others might know of the drow, but would otherwise not deal with them.
Considering their locations, canon also confirms that they must live beneath the Pomarj or the Drachensgrabs, since they appear in module A2 of the Slave Lords series. Other than that, I would recommend my non-canonical "A Listing of Drow Vaults in the Flanaess", available on Canonfire, for a possible listing of other underground vaults.
As for their gods and lifestyle, most of them worship Lolth the demon queen as opposed to the goddess. Otherwise, they'll worship the Elder Elemental God (confirmed) and most likely, as you said, other demon lords such as Grazz't, Orcus, Demogorgon, and maybe even Zuggtmoy.
There is no equivalent to Eilistraee among the divine beings worshipped by Greyhawk's drow; there will never be any Drizzt Do'Urden clones born from the dark elves of the Oerth. One legend I like that explains this is how some of the blood Corellon Larethian shed during his battle with Gruumsh, the blood that gave life to the elven race, fell on some of the bile and excrement released by Gruumsh in an attempt to foul the land. Thus, the very souls of the drow are rotten and polluted; no spark of goodness will ever enlighten them, and only a tiny minority will ever become neutral.
In handling the drow, it should be noted that they do not engage in anywhere near the same number of surface-related plots and schemes as the drow of Faerun do-chances are that when they get involved on the surface, the purpose is to help their efforts underground. And when they engage in surface operations, they will use dupes for their purpose, passing the most prominent leaders among these pawns as the true instigators of the attack. The leaders are also the only ones who know the truth of the drow.
This essentially sums up the Giants-Drow saga, at least as I see it:
Eclavdra was the head of House Eilservs, the strongest house of drow in Erelhei-Cinlu. Her house long resented the stranglehold of power held over the vault by the priestesses of Lolth, and sought to seize control for themselves. When the church of Lolth censured them, the Eilservs turned to the worship of the Elder Elemental God, and sought an advantage in attaining power on the surface. The power they would gain from this expedition would give the Eilservs the ability to force the other drow houses, and especially the priestesses of Lolth, to bow to their will.
And so, Eclavdra and her foul brood made contact with King Snurre Iron Belly, one of the strongest and most feared, but also one of the most stupid, giant kings in the Hellfurnaces. The dolt was easily convinced by Eclavdra to strike against the western states of the Sheldomar Valley, conquering and looting them. Snurre was stupid but charismatic, and Eclavdra encouraged him to use that magnetism and the fear he inspired in others to unite other races of giants to their cause. This giant alliance would gain power and prestige through its invasions, but Eclavdra would be the puppetmaster, using her pawns to give her the power she needed to support her true intentions-seizing control of Erelhei-Cinlu, and possibly even other drow vaults controlled by Lolth. Everyone would think Snurre was the true ruler of the giant invasions, with the surface dwellers not thinking to strike at the drow, and her rivals in Erelhei-Cinlu hopefully either unable to identify her alliance with the giants, or unable to stop it.
Of course, Eclavdra's plans were dashed by the PCs. With the death of Snurre, the giant alliance fell apart, and Eclavdra was unlucky enough to let the PCs discover the truth about the drow. Hence her backup plan: as she fled back to Erelhei-Cinlu, she left clues for the human adventurers to follow her. If they did so, she would further manipulate events to make these human adventurers think that the priestesses of Lolth were responsible for the giant incursions. These powerful human adventurers would strike at the Fane of Lolth, very subtly assisted by Eclavdra.
If they were strong enough to destroy the Fane of Lolth, Eclavdra would help them return to the surface world, where they would think they had stopped the evil, and think no more of the matter. If they failed, Eclavdra would wager that at least Lolth and her minions would be weakened enough for Eilservs and its allied lesser houses to strike. Either way, she would win. With Lotlh banished to the Abyss, or at least weakened by the invaders from the surface, Eclavdra could seize power and become Queen of the Drow. Her control and that of her alien god could potentially expand to other vaults, as well... _________________ <div align="left">Going to war without Keoland is like going to war without a pipe organ. They both make a lot of noise and they're both a lot of dead weight, so what's the point in taking them along? </div>
Just to add a few notes to the Lord of the Cruel Summer's piece:
The sundering of the elves and creation of the drow is an event that took place in the mythic past, but I think it should be clearly in the minds of the drow. The pain of the creation of this enemy is so strong, the bitterness of the fight so potent, that all elves should be touched by it. WWII was three generations ago, but everyone knows about Nazis. No one alive now participated in the American Civil War, but feelings about the war and its symbols are still strong. I expect that elven sentiment about the drow would be similar, but stronger.
What is not clear is how "real" this event was. Did it happen on one world, and have elves and drow spread out from there to other worlds? Did it happen in the elven outer planes homeland? How is it connected to the fall of Lolth from the Seldarine? Did it happen in all worlds in which there are drow, so that the drow on every world have an independent origin?
I am not sure what CSL means by saying that Oerth drow worship Lolth as a demon queen and in Fearun as a goddess. He seems to be referring to how Lolth is described in the rules in each words, but I don't think that would much matter to clerics.
Although not canon, I believe that a case can be made for the Elder Elemental God being a front for Graz'zt among the drow.
Other Oerth canon drow sightings: The Vale of the Mage, the Temple of Elemental Evil / Verbobonc (IIRC), the Great Kingdom. _________________ My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI
Thanks for the info and opinions CSL and Kirt. The piece on the other vaults, CSL, is very nice. Coincidentally, quite sometime ago I had imagined drow in the frozen north causing a little trouble for the barbarians. Interesting.
As far as an equivalent to Eilistraee, I thought the closest thing would be Ehlonna. I have run across a blirb or two about some drow ( D-series ) not being completely corrupt or completely evil with some maybe even being good. But, for the most part I see them as all evil and corrupt, wantonly cruel and perverted.
If I may be as so bold as to offer my view, I play the Drow like the Vorlons from Babylon 5. One Drow is bad, two Drow is two too many, if more show up, then people start hating life and questioning why their gods have abandon them I use the Drow as the bogeymen too.
However scary people make them to be, the fact remains that the Drow are a most maniacle, evil and twisted race. People don't talk much about them b/c one of the great resources of the Drow is their secrecy. When whole villages disappear, it's b/c the Drow came up for a slave raid. The Drow make precise, surgical strikes with no error. At least that's how I ran them in my worlds
Being twisted, these little black hearted bundles of hate and discontent have no problem setting up goodly elves. One thing I like to do is have the Drow enter into a dwarven mining complex and leave dead dwarves all over the place and a few high/grey elf dead too. Suddenly there is a blood fued and the Drow just sit back and watch the, pass the popcorn
Now when they aren't being bundles of hate and discontent, they are full of bitterness and resentment wrapped up in malicious schemes of loathing and madness. Drow are just plain bad news in my Greyhawk campaign. Oh, and none of this we handle sunlight stuff. Drow only come out on the darkest, most cloudy, rainy dreary ill omened nights imaginable, but that's just me. Hope this helped.
I use those nasty dark elves as the rulers of the Underdark(stole the name) which is under and connecting every mountain range in the western flanaess.
They are divided into Noble and Merchant houses that suffer from much in-fighting. Drow do not have an iron grip on the underdark by any means. Besides occasional religious and merchant wars, they battle the druegar(when they're not trading) and the hoard of various under-critters. Every derro uniting war throws the holdings and outposts in chaos, with various housing siezing opportunistic gains, and settling scores. The 4 nobel houses however keep power in their cities(Hellfurnace, crystal, barrier, and yatil). A 5th house(the wanders) lost their citidel in the lortmils during the hateful wars. They act as mercenaries for the other houses and pop-up most often in my campains.
They deal in mithril and slaves besides the usual. These items are tithed from the merchants, and woe and house that fails its quota.
I have an adult population of 20,000 in my world, I should say the noble houses do not protect and rarely communicate with each other. But this gives some backstory for the various hooks; rescue the henchman, deliver the mithral to one of the Dwarven Kings to stay his wrath (or curry his favour), Ear Trophy hunting for the Queen of elves, etc.
There are a number of articles in Canonfire that also talk about the Drow in GH. If you search Drow then have a good read.
Here is one of my favourites
http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=261 _________________ "Its a dangerous business going out your front door." JRR Tolkien
Unless you are a Greyhawk Heretic.
Wasn't a Snow Elves article in a long ago Dragon set in Greyhawk and didn't it describe the mortal origins of Lloth? I don't have my Dragons handy but I seem to remember this. I think the origin of the drow might in some manner relate to Lloth's origin. Lloth would be their "temptress," who drew them away from the Seldarine and to her worship?
There's an alternate Drow Pantheon in Dragon as well by Fred Weining (sp) one of the authors of the LGG. It gives you another option from the FR drow gods. But IIRC there isn't a good god in the article.
I really don't want to get into it before my wrecking crew discovers their presence, but I plan on using Drow as behind-the-scenes manipulators of events, not necessarily as prime movers.
I do however, need to let the party know that Drow may or may not exist, but stories of them definitely do. The destruction of the Fane of Lolth and subsequent rise of ...other god(desse)s, who may be more interested in the Surface World will play a part. How about helping a certain Queen of the Demonweb Pits back to power?
Other source material for the Drow: the Wraiths in Stargate: Atlantis, the "evil" elves in the original Elfquest, Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" Elves, and innummerable sci-fi "B" movies. Long story short: They're evil, not just with a capital E, but with all caps, bold-face, underline, and flashing. There will be no Drizz'le da'Burden.
I think drow should be used sparingly...when I first played dnd with a very old school DM the drow filled us with dread...and when playing the Against the Giants campaign realised they wer einvolved suddenly feeling a little less cocky.
Use them sparingly and make them worthy of the reputation. I agree with the idea of keeping them as manipulators behind the scenes. The drow are all about darkness and deception and intrigue. Hint at their involvement at various points but dont show them until the very end.
As for religion and the fact that someone said the drow of Greyhawk arent as commonly seen above ground as in FR then I think the two are interlinked. I dont know the background to the Fane of Lloth adventures but I have just got hold of the original Temple of Elemental Evil adventure. In there it mentions that Lloth was too weak to aid Zuggtmoy but was able to grant powers to a favoured human male priest. This shouts out a number of things. The Lloth of FR would never grant power to a human and a male of all things...but this Lloth is a weakened Lloth...she is referred to as a demon. Maybe at this stage, for whatever reasons her power is weakened, she is not strong enough to maintain a firmer grip on the drow and as a result they are mor einvolved in power struggles in their own cities than raiding above ground. At the same time - Lloth is not in a positiion to be choosy - if she sees promise and gain in a human male then she will use that tool.
Also - it is usually stated that Lloth rules over the other drow gods like a tyrant. The other drow gods are only allowed woshippers with sanction from Lloth or in secret. The Lloth in my game isnt strong enough to imose her will like that yet. She is stronger than the others but she has competition...eg The Elder Elemental God.
Now as for if drow can be good or evil...to say no drow can ever be different from the stereotype is to be honest pretty close minded. Greyhawk is all about the clash of good and evil underlying a clash of a whole bunch of political greys but at the end of the day its the good and evil that makes it the stuff of heroes and fantasy. To have a drow seeking to change his ways is a great roleplaying opportunity provided it is a rare thing. I have just converted TOEE to 3rd ed rules and am about to start the game. I like the pre-Greyhawk Wars setting as it is what I played when I first started and I feel it is more what Greyhawk was mean tto be. Im all for the roleplaying and storytelling aspect and one of my players who has just started playing has always loved dark elves. So I have let him play a drow who is trying to redeem his ways. I look forward to his challenges and the roleplaying opportunities we can have.
The reference to Eillistraee earlier wa sinteresting as my drow player aske dif there was a deity who his character could turn to and he asked about Eillistraee who is a FR goddess. Idecided that Ehlonna would be perfect and the names Ehlenestra and Eillistraee definitely in my mind have a link anways.
So yeah - I have lost track where I am going with this but I think drow, if used carefully have a lot of potential but too much of a good thing can spoil it.
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I use the Drow as the bogeymen too.
