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    Canonfire :: View topic - Clerics of pantheons
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    Clerics of pantheons
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:38 am  
    Clerics of pantheons

    I read now Scarlet Brotherhood for 2nd AD&D and there is idea that some clerics favor whole pantheons of gods ( like "Suel gods"), not only one particuilar. As mostly 3(.5)ed player I found this little confusing. Can some one tell me how magic and duties of this kind of priests look like? What with the Alignment restrictions etc?
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:44 am  
    Re: Clerics of pantheons

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    I read now Scarlet Brotherhood for 2nd AD&D and there is idea that some clerics favor whole pantheons of gods ( like "Suel gods"), not only one particuilar. As mostly 3(.5)ed player I found this little confusing. Can some one tell me how magic and duties of this kind of priests look like? What with the Alignment restrictions etc?


    -As far as I know, there are no hard and fast rules for for what alignment a Flaneass pantheon (or group) cleric would be, and I've never systemized it IMC [until now!]. Theoretically, any alignment of any of the deities might be allowable, but it would tend to be a cross of the alignment of the head god/des, combined with a combination of all the deities, adjusted for their power. But to a certain extent, anything might be allowable; each cleric might deal with an aspect of the pantheon, based on their alignment. But they tend to be protectors of their society, so that could also add in a Lawful and/or Good aspect, and the alignment of their society.

    I figure:

    Suel, Scarlet Briotherhood: LE, LN, NE, N;

    Suel, Normal [i.e., not SB, minus Fortubo]: LN, N, LG, CN;

    Old Faith: N, NG, NE, LN, CN;

    Oeridian Agricultural Gods: NG, N, CG, CN.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:28 pm  

    I have toyed with the idea of pantheistic priests in the past, but only as NPCs. The most notable one in my campaign is a very powerful Flan priest who is basically a sort of religious chameleon. For him I set up the following guidelines:

    * The character must maintain a core alignment of True Neutral, as representing every aspect of a pantheon requires a balance of faith (of sorts; see below).

    * The character takes on aspects of each god they represent when that god is in the ascendent, and that usually revolves around various holy days. At these times, the priest takes on the domains and tendencies of alignment that coincide with the deity in question. For example, during the Blood Moon Festival, the priest takes on the Domains of Nerull, and their True Neutral alignment adopts evil tendencies (though not an outright evil alignment). During this time, the priest counts as Neutral Evil for the purposes of what spells are effective against them (such as holy word, protection from evil, etc.), and is able to rebuke undead. The priest may cast spells that have an evil descriptor without fear of changing alignment, so long as the spells being cast are in the service of Nerull rather than to be outright evil (i.e. the whole point is serving the god and getting the god their due from the people, not killing/terrorizing). The priest is also able to use the god's chosen weapon with proficiency during this time, and make use of any equipment a priest of the god would be able to use (libram of ineffable damnation, etc.).

    * The priest adopts a physical appearance/presence representative of the deity, so , as in our previous example, the priest might appear pale and have sunken eyes and cheeks, bonier hands, etc. Consider this to be a supernatural transformation.

    There are other features, but you get the idea. Granted, this might be just a little bit too intensely detailed for a PC, but it makes for a very fun NPC to be encountered. For a PC, I would i9mplemnt the following:

    * Alignment has to be True Neutral, and the priest adopts the alignment tendencies of the deity in ascendance as above (and is affected by spells an other things accordingly).

    * They can use the deity's chosen weapon with proficiency only during the time of deity's ascendance (unless they would normally be proficient with the weapon anyways).

    * The priest's Domains change to suit the deity in ascendance.

    * The Priest must abide by any restrictions of the ascendant faith, whether that be an inability to use certain types of armor, weapons, or shields, or any other restrictions.

    * The Priest's ability to turn or rebuke undead must match that of the deity in ascendance; where there is a choice the PC can choose.

    Now, all of that might sound sort of powerful, but it isn't. The ability package changes, constantly, such that the a PC would sometimes be very well suited to some sort of task/encounter, but very unsuited at other times. There is simply a level of unreliability built into things. The main thing is that the character has no control over what they have access to at any one time- things change according to a schedule not of the PC's making. The deity of ascendance at the time determines everything.

    One final note, and it is the main point for this type of character. Being a Pantheistic Priest (that is the name I give them at least) is [b]not[b] about having a license to behave in a certain way at different times (i.e. "W00t! My cleric gets to be evil this week! Let the MURDER! DEATH KILL! commence!" Laughing). The responsibility of a Pantheistic Priest is to make sure that the people are venerating the pantheon as a whole- even deities like Nerull who most people will not outright venerate, but make no mistake that the Pantheistic Priest will make sure that the people at least pay their respects to/appease The Reaper. If the Pantheistic Priest is not tending to the flock properly on the behalf of even one deity, not only will they have one deity angry with them, but every single other deity in the pantheon will have their concerns as well, and that can lead to overall penalties regardless of what deity is currently in ascendance.

    I have not formally written all of this up for any one game edition, yet, but that is my idea for Pantheistic Priests. Going back to 2nd edition, where there are generic clerics and specialty priests, a Pantheistic Priest is best represented by the generic cleric, though I would still alter them based on the ideas above.
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    Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:17 pm  

    In Eberron, many people worship the entire Sovereign Host (group of nine deities), or sometimes the Dark Six (group of six deities opposed to the Sovereign Host). Each individual deity does enjoy specialist worshipers who focus on only them; however, most people pray to the entire group (giving a prayer to the war god right before battle, and to the god of travels when on the road, etc). Priests of the pantheon focus on appeasing the entire pantheon, and it doesn't seem to matter if they end up favoring one part of the pantheon anymore than the next, just so long as they stay true to the pantheon as a whole. (In 3e metagame terms, a panthenic cleric could take any domain available to any of the gods in that pantheon, and had to be within one step of NG, or NE for the Dark Six.)

    The gods in each of these pantheons have (mostly) compatable alignments. The Sovereign Host is mainly good. (There's two True Neutral deities in it, as well as one Lawful Neutral.) The Dark Six is mainly evil. (Only one deity in the Dark Six is non-evil, and he's Chaotic Neutral.) It's said the Dark Six are the deities that were cast out of the Sovereign Host.

    I'd say jamesdglick's method of setting up the pantheons would be most sound. You could even include deities with opposing alignments in the same pantheon - a druid of the Old Faith, for example, might be Neutral Good, but make the occassional prayer and offering to the Earth Dragon to ensure his appeasement. An Oeridian cleric who focuses mainly on the lawful war gods might beseech Procan for mercy if he was stuck on a ship in middle of a storm.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:36 pm  

    Cebrion wrote:
    ...The character takes on aspects of each god they represent when that god is in the ascendent, and that usually revolves around various holy days. At these times, the priest takes on the domains and tendencies of alignment that coincide with the deity in question...


    -OK. That's just weird. You're on own with that one... Wink Confused

    There's an article in Dragon (I forget the issue, but it had a Flaneass article in it) which details the Anglo-Saxon pantheon, and includes general pantheon clerics.

    I think it was also covered in the AD&D1 Cleric supplement.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:32 pm  

    jamesdglick wrote:
    There's an article in Dragon (I forget the issue, but it had a Flaneass article in it) which details the Anglo-Saxon pantheon, and includes general pantheon clerics.


    Dragon #263.
    "Hearth & Sword: Deities of the Dark Ages"
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:56 pm  

    For me a pantheon priest would have to maintain a level of neutrality. So any neutral alignment with Lawful Neutral and true Neutral being the most common amongst them. This priest will have to see a balance amongst his pantheon and seek to maintain this. I don't believe everyone can be true neutral so anything along the lines of neutrality works. In stead of Domain spells I would all access to all spheres as major access. the downside would be the pantheon priest receives no domain spell bonus. Though they would be able to turn or control the undead. The other downside would be the limit of weapons as bludgeoning only. So even though a priest of Heironeous can use a battle axe, a pantheon priest which includes Heironeous can only use bludgeoning weapons part of that neutral bent they must abide.

    Later

    Argon
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    Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:04 pm  

    In the aforementioned Dark Ages article, a pantheon priest was any non-chaotic alignment because, in that specific setting, their primary concern was serving their community by acting as an intermediary between the community and all of the gods.
    They were described as being primarily NPCs because tasks that would require them to leave their community were normally done by clerics and specialty priests of individual gods, i.e. PCs.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:27 pm  

    Armitage wrote:
    In the aforementioned Dark Ages article, a pantheon priest was any non-chaotic alignment because, in that specific setting, their primary concern was serving their community by acting as an intermediary between the community and all of the gods.
    They were described as being primarily NPCs because tasks that would require them to leave their community were normally done by clerics and specialty priests of individual gods, i.e. PCs.


    -That's partly where I was going with my own take.

    But I'd argue that if the community and the gods were largely chaotic, then the pantheon would tilt chaotic (elves, or OD&D or D&D 3X versions of chaotic orcs). Chaotic wouldn't necessarily mean they wouldn't be watching over the community, but they'd do it in a different way than lawfuls.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:19 pm  

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