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    Canonfire :: View topic - Component Variations
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Component Variations
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:19 am  
    Component Variations

    OK, here's another one for the Canonfire! host to discuss.

    Certain spells require material components (I avidly use them to balance out spell-caster power, and it adds a neat dimension to the game, I believe). Without said material ingredient the spell is doomed to fail, although some DMs allow variations, especially if the swapped ingredient is 'greater' in nature.

    For instance, to cast a Fly spell you need a bird feather (from a flying species, I'd say...no penguins or ostriches, thank you!), a flight feather from a GIANT eagle, hawk, or crow will surely work, and perhaps even augment your spell! I believe I read that in a Dragon Magazine somewhere. Would the wing from an insect work? How about the wing membrane of a bat?

    Most mages tend to be from highly advanced civilizations where components can be purchased, traded, and produced. The need to find specific components can be tricky, but seldom impossible. However, I respectfully submit that this is not necessarily the case for some priests and clerics, primarily those who follow more 'limiting' and less diverse faiths...

    Now let us focus on clerical spells. There are many spells, aggregated into Spheres, that are the products of the Power's portfolio. However, some of the materials needed for some of these spells are very specific based on environment and terrain, and are thus not available for use by clerics not found within that ecosystem. For adventurers, this is not a serious problem, given their access to large cities (like Greyhawk City), but for some less mobile, and more restricted, clerics, this is an issue. Shouldn't these clerics have relevant, equitable variations to cast spells granted to them by their own Powers? This is especially true for many of the humanoid, demi-human, and perhaps druidic faiths.

    Allow me to give some precise examples:

    Incense is needed to cast an array of clerical spells, including the highly useful Glyph of Warding. However, it is my understanding that the manufacture of such items is quite time-consuming and exacting a process, not to mention somewhat costly. Does it not make sense that priests of the goblinoid pantheon have an equivalent, perhaps a foul-smelling weed that is painstakingly rendered into a sort of fragrant item?

    Clerics of Semuanya, Power of lizard folk, have weather-affecting magicks, but no true access to foxfire (needed for Faerie Fire) or some of the other components required for many other spells (evergreen trees, for instance, to create ashes for the Pass without Trace spell). Such items are not located in swamps, you see, the primary domain for lizard men. Wouldn't their Semuanya-granted spells have an alternative, but equally effective, material component? I'd think so, or you further limit shamans, clerics, and priests of many Powers. What is necessary, in my mind, is an alternative that is equitable and balanced.

    Ideas, thoughts, suggestions?

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2695
    From: LG Dyvers

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    Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:14 pm  

    I like and agree with both of your points - 1) that alternate components for spells should be available, and 2) that those alternate components may increase or decrease the potency of spells.

    Using your example of the Fly spell, I think a DM could have some fun with a PC wizard that tried to substitute a penguin, ostrich, or axe beak feather for the feather of a bird capable of flight when casting that spell. Perhaps, he finds that his legs won't move very fast as he begins waddling forward, but if he dives into deep water, he can swim much faster than normal. Perhaps the PC finds he can leap a greater distance, and glide down softly, but can't actually fly. Perhaps he finds himself having an overwhelming urge to head-butt his combat opponents. Razz

    Secondly, It shouldn't be possible to substitute just anything of equal value in order to cast a spell. If the spell description calls for a 1,000 gp ruby, your PC shouldn't just be able to substitute a 1,000 gp pearl. The spell should simply fail. However, if the PC spends some time and money experimenting with substitutes, he may find that a 1,000 gp sapphire does work, but it results in a slightly altered effect. For example, if the original spell was a fire spell, perhaps the altered version is one of ice, though the other effects remain unchanged.

    Also, though gods of different environments may grant similar spells, it may be that they are not of equal potency. Perhaps lizardfolk clerics/druids/shamans have access to Faerie Fire, but the components they must substitute don't work as well and their version of the spell is less effective. Perhaps the substitute components for their Find the Path or Pass Without Trace spells work even better than the common qualities listed for them - not just because they use better components, but because those spells are specifically powerful parts of their home environments, so they would be important abilities for their gods to grant them.

    SirXaris
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

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    Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:18 pm  

    My idiot-savant brain is telling me to say that variant spell components, and their efficacy, are covered in the 1E or 2E DMG. There is also the article "Living in a material world" in Dragon #81 which is all about material spell components.
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:21 am  

    Cebrion, thanks for the tip. I will look in both books for some clues.

    If anyone else has something to add, please feel free.

    -Lanthorn
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 05, 2007
    Posts: 290
    From: The Pomarj

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    Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:23 pm  



    Last edited by BlueWitch on Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:19 pm  

    BW, as luck (thanks, Rudd!) would have it, I think that I do have that issue b/c I actually ran an NPC Shipmage once. Thanks for the information!

    Any others?

    -Lanthorn
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
    Posts: 580
    From: British Isles

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    Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:15 am  

    I think it makes sense to allow geographical variation for your spell components. I like the idea that not all spells are taught exactly the same way.

    A wizard who learns the fly spell from a tradition or culture that have few birds might teach the spell using insect wings. However that wizard would always have to use insect wings and trying to use a feather might cause the spell to fail.

    If he were to spend some time with a wizard who has learnt the spell using a feather as the component and who can teach this other wizard the nuances of using a feather vs. an insect wing in his spells then maybe you could either just allow this extended selection of components immediately or ask for a roll to see if the wizard is able to comprehend how to apply a different component in his magic.
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