Canonfire! Forums-viewtopic-Which Circle of Eight do you use? And why only wizards?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:32 pm Which Circle of Eight do you use? And why only wizards?

I'm curious to know what your Circle of Eight is like. I'm just using the *official* 3E Circle. You see, my campaign pretty much followed the *official* plot with regard to the Circle so I haven't had to make any changes. In other words: the Circle die in "Vecna Lives!"; then their clones are released by Mordy; Rary betrays his comrades during the signing of the Greyhawk Wars treaty and Tenser and Otiluke get killed; Tenser's second clone is released in "Return of the Eight"; etc.; etc.

Also, I was wondering if WotC/TSR had ever explained why only wizards are allowed in the Circle of Eight? I mean, as I understand it, the Circle of Eight is really just about maintaining *balance*, right? And so, the Circle of Eight should be able to accept any class into its ranks as long as the individual is True Neutral (but then Jallarzi Sullarvarian is Good, I think?).

So, does old Mordy also have an *arcane* or wizardly agenda?

I know that in EGG's campaign there was non-wizards. There was even a dwarf in the Circle, I think . . . Diggby or something?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:16 pm

Hey Baggins,

IIRC, The circle is a reformed version of the citidel of 8, there were a mix of classes. Riggby was a priest of boccob (human) The pre- 3e version the circle was formed composing of wizards. Not neccessarily neutral. many are/were good.

I think including good wizards is 'cause the balance of the flaeness was evil. The professed agenda is to promote balance in the flaeness. I don't have a relevant link, baggins. Im sure other posters will link you or clue you in more thoroughly.

I never understood the whole circle thing myself. I made them background movers that are sort of there, with tie ins if I need them. I use my own Magic guilds strewn across the flaeness, including a wicked international necro-group, good villans. will submit article later.

Muscles

Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:17 pm

Oh, Good work on the poll. I haven't tried to make one yet.

Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:26 am

I like the concept of the Circle as a model for the players to aspire to. Each wizard has their personal issues and are all quite ready to split off if need be. As per Rary. I have also had players despise the circle out of either paranoia or jealousy, which works too. They aren't necessarily the good guys but as long the PCs know of them, and can follow by their example they can carve their niche an someday have their own renown circle or citadel or whatever.

Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:00 am

I use the Circle in its current version with some modifications. I prefer Mordy as nominal/charismatic leader then as a sort of shadow/behind the scenes/manipulator. Correct me if I am wrong, but I haven't seen any reference prior LG that Bigby was apprentice of Mordy, so i dont use this idea and also erased Theodain from the Circle, making efectively. Using the Title "Mordenkainen and the Circle of Eight" puts too much spot on this wizard while implying a secondary role for the others.

BTW, in that gamebook, Bigby's Curse, it's said this wizard has a pseudodragon familiar named Gareth. I know there's Edwina, Jallarzi's familiar that is a pseudodragon. Is there any mention of Bigby's familiar or Gareth was just inspired in Edwina for adding a character in this pocket?
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Victor Caminha

Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:53 am

I've yet to use the Co8 in my campaign, but they do exist. I use a powered down version of EGG's original group as the model.
Scott

Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:59 am

Hi,

I use the TSR pre-wars Co8 as is converted to 3e. In fact my group have been chosen by the Circle as agents. They used to be indirectly sponsored by Nystul while adventuring in Tenh. Now, many levels later, they are under Tenser wing.

Saludos,
Gabriel
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Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:53 am

I don't use them. It's not that they don't exist, I just don't use them. I do a lot of picking and choosing of Canon for my Greyhawk, since there are many things that I don't like the "flavor" of. For example, in my world the Greyhawk Wars never took place. I never felt that the Demigod of Trickery and Deceit (Iuz) would launch a major offensive against the rest of the world. I figured he'd go about world conquest in a much more subtle and insidious way. I keep wizards few and far between, so while the members of the Circle of Eight do exist in my Greyhawk, they aren't organized in the fashion that canon describes them.

Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:54 am

The Co* do not generaly play that large of a roll in my games, they exist and are known etc... but they are never realy "on camera", and play little or no part in the lives of the adventurers in my games. thus I tend to use the most current roster put out in a product (In this case the LGG), since it would be a waste of my time and energy to fiddle with it too much.

Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:53 am

Hi folks,
I use the "official" Co8, considering them the real movers n shakers of action, but with really few spotlight, in my campaign they r the subtle couselors of kings, or the masters of the royal wizard...etc...

I think that the reason behind the fact they r all wizards is that wizards, at high level, r really powerful...much more than warriors or clerics...n that they r apt to maintain their secrets well than all other classes...(all this obviously IMHO)
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Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:49 pm

Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:26 pm

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:27 pm

Baggins, I *believe* it started in LGG. Before D&D3E I haven't seen any reference about that
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Kneel before Rahu!

Victor Caminha

Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:25 pm

Bigby (the actual PC) started out as the apprentice of Mordenkainen (the actual PC). This has been aluded to in Dragon magazine, and other sources, since the mid seventies. I think it is even implied in WG5, but I haven't read it in a while, so I'm not sure.
Regardless, this is the inspiration for the idea.
Scott

Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:53 pm

Thanks for the info, ScottG. From what I've read in City of Greyhawk (1e) and Player's Guide to Greyhawk (2e), it didnt mentioned at all. It would explain the difference between their ages, but it's likely that I'll continue to ignore this :-)
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Victor Caminha

Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:27 pm

Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:10 am

Baggins, in the City of Greyhawk, it stated that Bigby was 48 and Mordenkainen 72 (but appearing 46). In Player's Guide to Greyhawk (set in 591 CY), Bigby is 57, but they omitted Mord's age (perhaps because of his age retarding spells) although he should have 81.
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Kneel before Rahu!

Victor Caminha

Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:25 pm

I'm sorry for the omission Baggins...I've played, as player and DM, in D&D (1E), AD&D (2E); as DM in 3.0E...and i've found that wizards r always stronger than all the other classes at high level....maybe, I admit, in 3E the cleric could fill the gap...since WoTC have raised cleric's spells from 7 level to 9....but spellcasters (maybe its better to call them in this way) r definitely more powerful and flexible than fighters. rangers, thieves...and so on...and this 'till the 1E....where wizards were really POWER-FULL at high level...and the Co8 date back from 1E when it wes formed by GG and his fellow players.....
_________________
The best orc is the dead one.....and beheaded for security

www.Greyhawk.it

The grey falcon fly in Italy too