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    Canonfire :: View topic - Crime and Punishment?
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    Crime and Punishment?
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 21, 2010
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    Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:13 pm  
    Crime and Punishment?

    What laws are there in different parts of Flanaess? How do they work and what kind of punishment do they have?

    I have the Laws in Keoland pdf which was used in the Living Greyhawk Campaign. I got inspiration from that I wrote this:

    COMMON LAWS IN THE KINGDOM OF KEOLAND (also used in the March of Sterich)

    REPARATIONS
    Reparations must be paid for damages to material goods if their worth can be measured in silver/gold pieces with relative ease.
    Men must pay reparations for adultery (half of their current wealth, followed by a mandatory divorce).

    FINES
    Maximum 5 gp, usually much less. Amount is usually highly arbitrary.
    Crimes that are fined:
    Disorderly conduct, brawling, unruly behaviour towards official authority, indiscreet use of magic, minor material damage of public property, violating a curfew, customs violation, pickpocketing, indirect insult against a member of nobility, lesser blasphemy, hazardous negligence, galloping in a population center, illegal gambling, illegal threat, possession of thieves' tools, using disguise to cover one's identity and aiding in crime.

    Exceptional fines (maximum of 500 gp):
    Bribery, tax fraud.

    Inability to pay the fine: Two lashes per every unpaid silver piece (given publicly).

    FORCED LABOUR AT STONE QUARRIES
    Up to two years, usually one year.
    Three incidents of repeating a minor offense, inflicting permanent bodily harm, public slandering of nobility, involuntary homicide with extenuating circumstances, illegal dueling, resisting official authority, rebelling, brigandry, piracy, burglary, unlawful trapmaking, major blasphemy, slavery, embezzlement, extortion and oath breaking.

    If the offender is unfit for manual labour or has known allies that might help the offender escape the stone quarries or if the quarries are currently full:
    Five lashes for every week of intended week of forced labour, after which the offender is exiled.

    CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
    The offender is kept (for indefinite time) in dungeons before execution.
    Fugitives, habitual criminals, traitors, sodomites, deserters, rapists, killers and murderers, necromancy (necromantic cantrips are allowed), summoning evil creatures, possession of poison, conspirators, evil cultists, inflicting bodily harm to a member of nobility, spying, imposing oneself as a noble,
    Also leaders of criminal gangs or organizations of any size (two members or more) are always executed, without exception.

    The following are not crimes or misdemeanors:
    Urinating in public, libel, domestic violence and animal abuse.

    Special proceedings for unusually dangerous criminals:
    In case of powerful magic users and others whom are difficult detain, the magistrate may make an exception and either pardon the criminal, fine him/her or summarily execute him/her without delay.

    Special category for female criminals:
    Abortion, indecency, adultery or infanticide.
    Punishment: Branding and exile.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:38 pm  

    The City of Greyhawk boxed set has a section on crime and punishment about as detailed as what you presented above.

    SirXaris
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    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:17 pm  

    You can also refer to the Atlas Games publication: "Crimes and Punishment," by Keith Baker. Cool

    I use it in my games. Saves time. Wink
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:53 am  

    If you can find a copy of the Old Thieves Guild game they had a whole section on both Crime and punishment and the bribing of judges
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:41 pm  
    crime and punishment

    "men must pay reparations for adultery (half of their current wealth, followed by a mandatory divorce)"

    Half my wealth are you kidding me, sell her into slavery, its much cheaper and you might get a few silvers to boot, or if you are heartless you could have her killed, or lock her in the tower.
    If i remember correctly if a woman commited adulty under early fuedal law the husband was to have her stoned to death. I dont recall if there was a penalty for the men. But this half of ones wealth is a modern idea.


    The city of Greyhawk box set rules are the only offiical ones i remember about but those are city specific.

    Don't forget arson was a fairly major crime.
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:52 pm  
    Re: crime and punishment

    ArchmageJ wrote:
    "men must pay reparations for adultery (half of their current wealth, followed by a mandatory divorce)"

    Half my wealth are you kidding me, sell her into slavery, its much cheaper and you might get a few silvers to boot, or if you are heartless you could have her killed, or lock her in the tower.
    If i remember correctly if a woman commited adulty under early fuedal law the husband was to have her stoned to death. I dont recall if there was a penalty for the men. But this half of ones wealth is a modern idea.


    The city of Greyhawk box set rules are the only offiical ones i remember about but those are city specific.

    Don't forget arson was a fairly major crime.


    I know, you're absolutely right. I tried to have a compromise between a real medieval law (universal throughout Europe) and modern moral values.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    From: So. Cal

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    Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:52 pm  
    Re: Crime and Punishment?

    Sutemi wrote:

    Exceptional fines (maximum of 500 gp):
    Bribery, tax fraud.

    Inability to pay the fine: Two lashes per every unpaid silver piece (given publicly).


    Assuming the minimum is more than a regular fine's maximum, that being 5 gp, this would be the equivalent of more than 100 lashes at the minimum, which in most cases will effectively be a death sentence.

    I suggest altering this to one weak of penal servitude per silver piece unable to be paid (i.e. they work off the debt). The option for the debt to be paid (with interest) by others would be a nice bit to add as well, as it could lead to other interesting situations (and the state gets its money anyways) such as being indentured/indebted.

    The lashes are gone, and the reason for that is because those who would likely write these laws are the nobility, who just so happen to be the same people likely to commit crimes requiring exceptional fines. As such, these same people would never, ever include a punishment that would demean them so publicly in front of the common folk. The nobility don't want the common folk to even remotely get it into their heads that the nobility are in any way equivalent to, or lesser than, them. The only way the lashes would happen is if the crime were relatively outrageous and committed against the crown, in which case it might be considered treason anyways, the punishment for which would be death- in this case very publicly and humiliatingly lashed to death (which ought to send a strong message to other nobles involved in or considering anything similar). So, don't embezzle money from the crown.

    And so you might save the non-lashing punishment for just the nobility, with commoners (even wealthy ones) being subject to paying one week of penal servitude or one lash per silver piece of the fine, to a maximum of 50 lashes (the latter of which could very well kill somebody anyways); the rest of the unpaid fine amount being dealt out in weeks of penal servitude. They might also have the option to pay their debt in a combination of lashes and weeks of penal servitude. For example, a burly farmer who owes 6 gp in taxes can only raise 5 gp of it, and can't stay away from his farm for 10 weeks, might stand up and take 8 of the lashes, and pay the remaining 2 sp of debt off as 2 weeks in penal servitude. Then at least he will only be gone from his farm for two weeks. Additionally, if it is harvesting season, the punishment might be put off until after the harvest is in, depending on the "magnanimity" of the judge/local lord acting as judge/nation in question.

    Some major fined crimes might require a minimum number of lashes as part of the punishment and with no option to avoid them, while some minor crimes might not result in any lashes, but simply in penal servitude. It depends on the state in question; specially what its general alignment will put up with and what its needs are (which judges can always cater to). For example, a particular offense might normally result in a mandatory 20 lashes, plus a week of penal servitude per silver piece remaining unpaid. However, seeing as the king is building a new border keep and is short on manual labor, the judge eliminates the lashes and instead tacks on 20 additional weeks of penal servitude, and off the culprit goes to heft heavy stones at the keep's work site for at least 20 weeks (or more if they cannot pay the rest of the fine, if any).

    And justice (and the crown) has been served! Razz
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:12 pm  

    Good points Cebrion! I will adjust the crime and punishment for my campaign accordingly.
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