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    Canonfire :: View topic - Missing piece of time - Crook of Rao
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    Missing piece of time - Crook of Rao
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    CF Admin

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    From: Rel Astra

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    Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:42 am  
    Missing piece of time - Crook of Rao

    I'm doing a write-up on the Fiend-Sage of Rel Astra, but I'm missing 1 very important piece of information which may or may not be in published work. but if it is, I must know about it to properly convey the event in my article.

    How and when did Drax acquire the Crook of Rao?

    Here are my notes compiled from the Greychronodex, WGR7: Ivid the Undying, From the Ashes, and the Living Greyhawk Gazatteer.


    9 CY: Flan legend and Oerdian divination were combined to find the Crook of Rao. The spot of the discovery, Mitrik became the capitol of Veluna.

    355 CY: Second Expeditionary Force of Keoland (King Tavish II) conquers Devarnish and takes the Crook of Rao. Canon Turgen IV of Mitrik drafts and enacts the Treaty of Devarnish that cedes Fals Gap, the great Western Road and several southern Fortresses to Keoland in exchange for halting the invasion.

    522 CY: Drax is born.

    557 CY: Lord (Prince) Drax (the undead) (I disagree that he was undead at this time, as the next entry suggests animuses were'nt created as of yet) of House Garasteth becomes ruler of the city of Rel Astra

    584 CY: Ivid begins making Animus generals (including Drax.)

    584 CY: Ivid magically abducts Drax, after Drax ruins Overking’s supply lines in retaliation for the Overking’s troops attempt to loot Rel Astra. Fiend-Sage could not forewarn him. Drax is later released feigning understanding and returns to Rel Astra to plot revenge.

    585 CY: Canon Hazen aquires Crook of Rao from Drax of Rel Astra
    1064 Atlas [76] [assumed] (Rel Astra, Veluna)


    586 CY: (Coldeven) Canon Hazen, using the Crook of Rao
    drives demons out of Flanaess (known as the “Flight of Fiends”)

    586 CY: (Coldeven) Immediately following the Crook’s use, Ivid declared to be no longer ruling in Rauxes. His generals (including Lord Drax) and nobles marched upon the city, and Rauxes engulfed in a “strange magical field.”

    591 CY: Rel Astran forces under Lord Drax have captured nearly a quarter of the old See of Medegia

    I could probably come up with some interesting ideas in regards to my question, but I really need to know if there is already an official answer. Any help would be much appreciated.

    Being at work without my books, I can not check out the 1064 From the Ashes Boxed Set Atlas, page 76 entry at this time and would appreciate any specifics there, if present, as well. Thanks!
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    From: Rel Astra

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    Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:46 am  

    In reading Eric Boyd's Crook of Rao article within Oerth Journal #3 he also does not offer up any solution, so I am going to assume it is an unknown event.
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    Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:52 pm  

    abysslin wrote:
    In reading Eric Boyd's Crook of Rao article within Oerth Journal #3 he also does not offer up any solution, so I am going to assume it is an unknown event.


    TJ---

    IIRC there's some comments about the Crook trade as a possible adventure in FtA (or perhaps that was on GT??). I recall something like that from researching my Crook write up a few years ago.

    If you want me to go combing through my old notes, let me know....
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    Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:18 am  

    Hi Abyss,

    I noticed that this source is missing from your Crook of Rao timeline: WG6, Isle of the Ape. In that adventure, Tenser commissions a group of adventurers to recover the Crook of Rao from a demiplane known as the Isle of the Ape. I believe that the module is assumed to have taken place in the late CY 570s (around 579 or so?). I guess one could assume that the adventurers succeeded in their quest, and that either a) they returned the Crook of Rao to Tenser, and Tenser eventually passed it on (directly or indirectly) to Canon Hazen; or b) the adventurers turned it over to Canon Hazen. I'm not sure that there are canon references bridging Isle of the Ape and From the Ashes, or if FTA refers to the events that occurred in WG6 (my FTA currently is boxed away, so I can't double check)...

    Anyway, I hope that helps...
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:21 am  

    Oops... meant to say that perhaps Drax (and not Hazen) first acquired the Crook from Tenser or the adventurers that retrieved it from the Isle of the Ape. Would that many anymore sense? I don't really know much about that time period, or the eastern Flanaess...
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    Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:28 am  

    Alright, nevermind... I just realized that Eric Boyd's article discusses the events in WG6. Please ignore my rambling and waste of board space... Embarassed
    CF Admin

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    From: Rel Astra

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    Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:30 am  

    heh, that's Ok. I've chosen not to touch on how Drax got his hands on it and began the work after Drax had already acquired the crook.

    Thanks though, guys.
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    Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:10 am  

    abysslin wrote:
    heh, that's Ok. I've chosen not to touch on how Drax got his hands on it and began the work after Drax had already acquired the crook.

    Thanks though, guys.


    That is the best you do in case you want to create material as close to canon as possible. Combine all references and avoid improvization.
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:58 pm  

    The part that eludes me(maybe I missed it somewhere) is that Warnes Starcoat was accepted into the Co8 based in no small part on his past accomplishments- defeating the Weird of Gnatmarsh and being instrumental in recovering the Crook of Rao from the Isle of the Ape, which was then used by Hazen to banish fiends from Greyhawk.
    When/how the hell did Drax get his hands on it before Hazen did??? I think the Co8 might be pissed if Drax interfered in their plans and that they would be more than capable of laying waste to him and his minions. Or did Drax some how get a hold of the Crook after it was used by Hazen?

    ---Cebrion
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    CF Admin

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    Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:39 pm  

    Quote:
    Or did Drax some how get a hold of the Crook after it was used by Hazen?



    Quote:
    585 CY: Canon Hazen aquires Crook of Rao from Drax of Rel Astra
    1064 Atlas [76] [assumed] (Rel Astra, Veluna)

    586 CY: (Coldeven) Canon Hazen, using the Crook of Rao
    drives demons out of Flanaess (known as the “Flight of Fiends”)

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    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:35 pm  

    I am aware of the quotes. The reasoning for it is completely absent as far as I can tell. Not on your part abysslin Wink , but on the part of the FtA authors I believe.

    The reasoning that goes along with my thoughts on this follows from very particular circumstances.

    The situation: Iggwilv an Iuz have gateways churning out fiends(of pretty much all varieties) to join their armies during the GH Wars, and the Co8 wants to reign them in and restore balance(as they like to do). They know of the Crook of Rao and gather a group to retrieve it from IotA. Warnes Starcoat is one of the group. The crook, being a holy relic of Rao, is to be given to Canon Hazen so that he can use its power to banish all fiends currently on the prime material plane and bring the conflict more into a balanced fight, which is the whole point of the Co8.

    The point is, why would the Co8 apparently give the Crook to Drax(whom Hazen apparently then got the Crook from), or is this just another example of a writer(s) ignoring, or rather being ignorant of the past events of the very campaign world they are writing about?
    In story form it might read like this:
    *****

    "Having just returned from a harrowing mission, Warnes Starcoat gazed upon the worn wooden staff of the simple, yet oh so powerful Crook of Rao, and knew that he might now very well be a top candidate for joining the currently incomplete Circle of Eight."....
    *****
    Meanwhile, far to the east in the city of Rel Astra...

    Lord Drax chuckeled to himself as he gazed upon the simple shepherd's staff which, unbeknownst to all, was actually the fabled Crook of Rao. He had watched the quest for the Crook from its very beginnings. "Little does that fool Warnes Starcoat and those medlers suspect that, in addtion to them holding the fabled Crook of Rao, I myself ALSO hold said fabled Crook of Rao!!! HahahahahAHAHAHAHA!!!
    HUH!???!"

    Even through a thin veil of madness, Lord Drax was still lucent enough to note the paradox that the Crooks of Rao's dual existence proposed...

    *****

    This is what I am getting at. My question is, when/how did Drax pull the Crook of Rao out of his butt??? Happy Apparently he did so while undergoing a proctology exam by the Co8! What is the current explanation regarding this turn of events, and where is it explained?
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:42 pm  

    On a side note, Warnes Starcoat does not seem to be the type to be Drax's errand boy, and so it would seem unlikely that he would be recovering the Crook of Rao for Drax.

    Or is Isle of the Ape completely ignored by the FtA authors, as if it never existed, and the circle of Eight accepted Warnes Starcoat as a membber simply because he escorted the Crook from Drax to Canon Hazen?

    That would be like the CIA promoting the UPS delivery guy to being a director!
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    Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:57 am  

    Drax could well have just taken it. He commands sufficienty power to do so, being an animus and mage himself.
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:06 am  

    While that is technically true, I doubt that Drax would want to draw the ire of the Circle of Eight, all while he has enough problems maintaining his own realm amidst the duplicitous lords of the Great Kingdom.

    The whole situation is apparently an unanswered consistency in the history timeline. Of course, it could have simply been another way of downplaying EGG by taking the Crook from its source(Isle of the Ape), and discounting the rest of the source(EGG's material), and the origin of the whole quest in the first place- the Circle of Eight, who Drax has nothing to do with.

    I've seen so many mistakes in later Greyhawk products that I wonder if the newer writers even know what the hell is going on with this campaign world. These are little things for the most part, but it does not give me much confidence in their ability or knowledge of Greyhawk. I may not know everything off the top of my head, but I know where to look for it usually. But it’s not just the writers’ faults; it’s the editors and proofreaders as well. There doesn't appear to anything like a fact checker looking things over. When there are newer products with discrepancies of this kind, I tend to discount them out of hand as being the work of somebody(s) who are either ignorant or don't know what the hell they are doing. They should at least be familiar with the products of the past that will surely shape the products of the future, particularly with regards to things that shape the history of the campaign world.

    ---Cebrion
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    Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:55 am  
    Explained

    But is it not these unexplained things that will allow new GreyHawk material. If we have all the answers (and they are fun to puzzle out sometimes) then the only option left to WOTC is to wreck the whole world and make new questions.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:39 pm  

    If those unexplained things result from somebody who doesn't know anything about what they are writing about, I've got a bit of a problem with that.

    This is more like somebody watching a football game getting up to get a drink and coming back to the tv, which is now showing NASCAR. It is a subtle, yet noticable difference. Wink

    All I really want to know is, WHO CHANGED THE FREAKIN' CHANNEL!!! Smile
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    Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:49 am  
    It's all Mordie's Fault

    Esteemed Canoneers,

    Here's a guess: We will agree (sure we will...) that the Co8 seeks to maintain balance between good/evil law/chaos. By simply handing the Crook over to Hazen gives an advantage to good [and law?]; the Co8 commisioned the mission to retrieve the Crook, how can they use it to do what they want (i.e., get rid of all the pesky demons that are tilting the balance to general naughtiness) without giving good a HUGE advantage? They "give" it to Drax (I admit my general ignorance about this undead mage). One would have to suppose that the Co8 got something in return.

    Thus Hazen and company (including some members of the Co8 indicating that perhaps things go on in the circle that only some members know about...) must pay/give conssesions to Drax for the Crook, summarily reducing the boon for weal and making Mordie squeal with delight as his plan for balance comes to fruition.

    FL
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    Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:06 am  

    I've never read Isle of the Ape but understand that Warnes Starcoat was held to be one of the principal heroes who recovered the Crook of Rao. But where did Warnes (and the other surviving heroes) return to Oerth? Was the Isle accessed via Castle Greyhawk? If so, did the exit necessarily return to the Castle?

    If not, was the exit location specified? I not, why not make it be near Rel Astra? Alternatively, the Crook might have been stolen after returning to Oerth.

    Finally, I believe that Drax wouldn't hesitate to act against the interests of the Circle of Eight -- after the Lord Mayor of Rel Astra had determined that such action was in his (long-term) best interests. Also, consider that from the standpoint of Rel Astra, Mordenkainen is likely obscure. While powerful wizards might know of him, it is not necessarily so.
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    Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:05 pm  

    Furthermore, the Co8 hardly has any intimidation on a Guardian Tanari, a Death Knight, and an Animus Mage whom control one of the most powerful cities in the Flanaess as well as having some very powerful allies, particularly evil ones.

    I just don't think Drax would care in the least about meddling with Co8 affairs.

    Ofcourse, whether this is actually what happened is still up to us...
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    Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:12 am  

    Upon completing IotA, the party reappears within Tenser's castle, if I remember correctly. If so, I would think that it would be pretty hard for Drax to then get a hold of the Crook of Rao.
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