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    Canonfire :: View topic - Sailing And Travel In Winter?
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    Sailing And Travel In Winter?
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 26, 2002
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    From: Canada

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    Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:00 am  
    Sailing And Travel In Winter?

    I am in the middle of drafting the plot for my next Company of the Silver Wolf story. As part of that, I'm trying to fit exactly when the various events happen in the calendar. The year is 576 CY, but I'm still trying to figure out during exactly what month every given event is happening.

    To that end, I'm wondering what travel would be like by ship in the early winter months of the Flanaess. Would it be as easy as in the spring or summer, or would it be more difficult? I'm not very familiar with such things, so I couldn't really say for myself.

    Would travel on foot or on horse be faster than by cart or wagon-in other words, would a small band of travelers have an easier time than large caravans that might be harder to drag out of the mud or snow? I recall reading about the "caravan season" in sourcebooks like The Adventure Begins, but I don't know how applicable that is across the Flanaess.

    Thoughts?
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 11, 2009
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    From: Verbobonc

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    Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:54 pm  

    Early winter would be a difficult time to travel by ship. Depending on latitude, rivers or lakes, which the Flanaess’ unique geography makes key lines of communication, would begin to ice-up, proportional to how far north they are. Few captains would risk a vessel on the Nyr Dyv if ice floes were about, and fewer so on a river where they may be trapped until spring, if the ice does not destroy the vessel. At sea, the primary risk would be winter storms, as icebergs are not a menace until spring. The Solnor, which resembles the Atlantic in many ways, would be quite dangerous as a Nor’easter would be quite damaging to a wooden vessel. The Azure Sea and its tributaries, resembles the Caribbean to me, and would be calmer, though still risky to sail at that time.

    During the winter, land travel would be problematic. At latitudes where the ground is covered by snow, sleds or sledges would be in use during the winter, and would be faster than a person on foot. At latitudes were the ground is merely frozen, roads would actually be easier for wagons to go over, though an individual rider would still be faster. Finally, at latitudes where winter just means wet and cold, roads would be a mire, bogging down wagons and possibly pedestrians, and slowing horses. However, the real winter travel problem is feeding the horses. Horses typically graze when traveling, but in winter, there is no food growing, so unless they are transporting their own or having it purchased along the way they starve, and the weight of fodder quickly shortens the range of horse drawn travel. This is why armies traditionally went into winter quarters until the internal combustion engine supplanted the horse.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:19 am  

    A further elaboration about what was said regarding sled travel in winter. Frozen over rivers often become roads for the sleds, as the frozen surface is naturally level.

    Also I think there was some reference, regarding the Rhennee's migrations, about the northern shores of Nyr Dyv usually being frozen during winter, but the southern shore or perhaps just Midbay not as often or reliably? Or am I mistaken?
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:12 pm  

    Do you own The Wilderness Survival Guide? I find it to be an invaluable aide in any campaigns pertaining to the outdoors, from weather patterns to overland movement by sea, foot, air, beast, or conveyance...or even magic!

    -Lanthorn
    Adept Greytalker

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    From: Verbobonc

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    Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:41 pm  
    Re: Sailing And Travel In Winter?

    CruelSummerLord wrote:
    I am in the middle of drafting the plot for my next Company of the Silver Wolf story. As part of that, I'm trying to fit exactly when the various events happen in the calendar. The year is 576 CY, but I'm still trying to figure out during exactly what month every given event is happening.


    Based on my still (many years later) incomplete Greyhawk timeline, the following events occur specifically in 576 CY, but none really have a day assigned to them:

    Spring, 576: Against the Giants (Spring) (Against the Giants, Liberation of Geoff, 2)
    Guide to the World of Greyhawk compiled by Pluffet Smedger the Elder (OJ 1, 19)
    Zouken worshipers arrive in Leukish (OJ 3, 16)
    Pyromonicon stolen from Warfell VI (Dragon 241, 78)
    Greyhawk troops establish what will become Bright Tower Keep (Slavers 39)
    Jaran Krimeah directs the Shadow Sages to dispense informtion and rumors directing treasure hunters and adventurers to various locales, including Maure Castle. (OJ18, 15)
    Keraptis reappears in the Flanaess. White Plume Mountain.(Dragon256, 47)
    Leomund retires from the Circle of Eight. (Player's Guide to the World of Greyhawk, 23)
    Otiluke Joins the Circle of Eight (Player's Guide to the World of Greyhawk, 23)
    Quest of the Mist Golem (World of Greyhawk Gloss 26)
    The Copper Raider. (OJ5, 14)
    The Company of the White Griffon frees the copper dragon Clonoc from possession. (OJ5, 15)
    The Lost Passage of the Suloise. (World of Greyhawk Gloss 27)
    The Scarlet Brotherhood discovers the Weeping Hexagram near the Ziggurat of Black. (TSB, 86)
    The Slavelords start their reign of terror along the Wild Coast. (Slavers, 120-1)
    The Yellow Cartel comes to dominate the opiate trade within and without Ull. (OJ19, 9)
    Theodain Eriason explores the Passage of Slerotin. (RoTE 60)

    Sorry I cannot provide more detailed assistance to you.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:51 pm  

    I vaguely recall reading something about the Rhennee gathering in Midbay for the winter as well. This implies that even that far north the winter climate is not that severe.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:53 pm  

    I use the Greyhawk weather tables that first appeared in Dragon magazine, and later in the Glossography. There's a handy online tool that does all the grunt work for you:


    http://suuronen.eu/wf/

    What I've learned from using this for many years is that the Flanaess is definitely warmer than you think it is. Unless you take mountain elevation into consideration in mountain hexes, even the winter months over most of the map rarely go as low as freezing. I doubt that Greyhawk City, for instance, gets more than a few days of snow a year. The climate in Sterich, where my campaign is based, seems comparable to the southern U.S.

    As for sailing in the winter months, I think it'll go on much the same as the rest of the year except in the extreme north and northeast. But the Azure Sea won't have any ice, ever.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:50 pm  

    I think I may have misspoke when I referred to "early winter months". Instead, I was thinking of the months of Readying or Coldeven, which this PDF of the Flanaess calendar defines as "spring":

    http://adnd3egame.com/documents/gh_calendar.pdf

    In other words, could caravan and sailing season start as early as mid-Readying?
    Adept Greytalker

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    From: Verbobonc

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    Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:55 pm  

    I am assuming you mean early spring:

    In the Solnor, the greatest danger would be icebergs, as this is the period when they would form; there would not be any such danger in the Azure Sea or its basin.

    On the rivers and lakes, the biggest issues would be the river currents being exceptionally string with the spring run-off; going downriver might be easy, but upriver may be harder. Also, in the northern latitudes, ice would still be breaking up and might be a danger in the form of ice flows.

    On land, Napoleon's Fifth Element (mud) will be the biggest problem. Outside of the Great Kingdom's magical roads, most roads and tracks will be muddy mires, and the land beside them even worse. Additionally, there may not yet be fodder on the ground, limiting the ability to feed horses.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:47 am  

    Check out Anna Meyer's winter map of the Flanaess.

    http://ghmaps.net/tag/winter/

    Quag Lake pretty much ices over - the Rhenee barge folk will want to head down to the Nyr Dyv by the late fall. Lake Whystil only has partial ice cover. Furyondian traders can still make the run between Grabford and Crockport even in the deeps of winter.

    Doraaka's port would be iced in.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:57 am  

    I think the Azure Sea would correspond well to the Mediterranean Sea in the real world, as far as weather goes. Jeklea Bay would be more akin to the Carribbean Sea.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:25 am  

    I just assume that the rivers are deep, wide and reasonably fast flowing. So icing over should not be too much of a problem.
    I always equate Highfolk with Britain or Denmark climatically. So winters can be bad but not too inhospitable or impassable.
    If you think they can travel or you need them to travel they there is a mild spell of weather.
    Or if you want them to stay put, a cold snowy front comes in.
    Weather is changeable.
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