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Noncorporal Undead in a Container?

 
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Lanthorn
GreySage


Joined: Sep 09, 2009
Posts: 2304
Location: SW WA state (Highvale)

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Noncorporal Undead in a Container? Reply with quote

Hello again. Here's another bizarre question for everyone.

Is it possible to contain noncorporeal undead in a container, say a box, coffer, chest, etc., (with their cooperation, of course!)???

I know they can phase in and out of solid objects (through floors, walls, and the like) since they can enter and exit the Ethereal Plane at will. So...is it possible to have them roll or fold up inside a small container for transport?

Here's the reasoning why I think this is possible. A person, who is fully corporeal, can sit inside a box by tucking his/her arms and legs around his/her body, tucking down his/her head, and fit inside, unless that container is just too small, of course.

Why couldn't a specter, ghost, shadow, or wraith, having NO hard bones, do something along the same lines, and perhaps to an even greater degree?! This is like how an octopus, still corporeal but without an internal skeleton, can squeeze into very small spaces and objects (like bottles).

Of course, even though the undead creature has no hard parts, they still have a given volume, so this doesn't mean it can fit into a tiny container (like an ink bottle), but I would imagine it could phase into a much smaller space than a person of similar dimensions.

Just how small this container can be relative to the volume of the noncorporeal undead, though, is the real subject for debate.

Suggestions, ideas, comments?

-Lanthorn
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rasgon
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Joined: Aug 03, 2001
Posts: 2803
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many wraiths can dance on the head of a pin?
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Vulcan
Journeyman Greytalker


Joined: Mar 12, 2008
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure. Noncorporeal undead can do anything along those lines the DM wants them to.

Indeed, one could argue that due to their low physical density they could compact themselves into a much smaller space than their ordinary size would indicate. So if the DM wanted, they theoretically COULD hide inside the inkwell.
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Lanthorn
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Joined: Sep 09, 2009
Posts: 2304
Location: SW WA state (Highvale)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My concern is that this could get out of hand and be abused to the point of absurdity.

The noncorporeal undead still have a given volume, after all, even though they can compact themselves into a very smaller space. I am not sure if they can actually roll themselves up like a scroll, but rather see them squeezing themselves into a tighter ball, almost like the octopus, by deforming and consolidating their bodies.

But perhaps that is not permissible...

-Lanthorn
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Vulcan
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Joined: Mar 12, 2008
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you have ghost PCs, the DM will suit the level of absurdity (or lack thereof) to suit his game. That's as true for ghosts as it is for anything else.
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Cebrion
Black Hand of Oblivion
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Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 3586
Location: So. Cal

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion....

You can roll/fold up material. Incorporeal undead are immaterial- there is nothing to roll/fold up. They can't be sucked into something, because only something particulate can be affected that way. Etc. Etc.

If immaterial undead do have the ability to materialize, they pretty much become as they once were (except for having many added abilities), but they don't become a sheet, made of rubber, lack joints, etc. They don't become semi-material spirits with every freaky ability of every freaky critter, magical or otherwise "just because." They can only do what they previously could; perhaps enhanced by whatever undead abilities they now have.

What sucks a spirit into a container is a container that is magical, like an iron flask or similar. But that is all about the magic of the flask causing the effect though, and not the spirit now having the qualities of a slime.

Now, if you want to invoke cartoon rules, well yes, they can do anything you want, like putting a ghost in a teapot, breaking the teapot, and then the ghost is in the shape of the teapot, with eyes blinky blinking, and what not.
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Fantasybuff
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Joined: Jul 18, 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree they can go pretty much anywhere being incorporal....But I get this ghostbusters like vision of a group of palyers running around with 'an unlicensed nuclear accelerator' on each of their backs
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