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    Canonfire :: View topic - Making Elves More Sympathetic?
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Making Elves More Sympathetic?
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Oct 07, 2008
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    Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:06 am  
    Spindrift

    The http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?t=15428 page recommends a portal in the Spindrift Isles but I can't see this topic as having a canon source.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:13 am  
    Su-El

    The https://davidleonard-greyhawkmusings.blogspot.com/2019/11/history-of-oerth-part-1-of-grey-elves.html page references an "Oerth Journal" quote, "exploring the South Central portion of Oerth" which to me sounds like Gonduria which is a place referenced in Sagaard novels which are Yarth which is like Oerth. So maybe a portal from Middle-Earth is there. But many of the readers here probably don't like to mix Middle-Earth with Oerth.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
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    Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:37 pm  
    Re: Spindrift

    Raymond wrote:
    The http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?t=15428 page recommends a portal in the Spindrift Isles but I can't see this topic as having a canon source.


    Yeah, that was just a guess. The Spindrifts are sacred to Sehanine Moonbow, goddess of far journeys, so they make sense as a point of arrival for the elves whether they arrived via portal (4e especially has elves originating in Faerie) or simply sailed across the Solnor Ocean from Aquaria, as they did in Frank Menzter's campaign. The Egg of the Phoenix supermodule has some background on elven civilization in Aquaria going back to Neolithic times.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:16 pm  

    edmundscott wrote:
    • For those playing editions after 1e, did you retain the elven lifespan (1000s, not 100's, of years) from the original DMG, or did you shorten it according to the appropriate ruleset? If you retain the longer lifespan, do you make elder elves depart in some Tolkeinesque way after 700 years or so, or are there numerous old grey elves in Celene who might have actually personally witnessed the Invoked Devastation or Rain of Colorless Fire?


    My reading of the 2e rules was that elves retained their 1e lifespans but generally moved on to Arvanaith when they wearied of the world, centuries earlier than that, living out the rest of their lifespans in the outer planes. However, there are exceptions: for example, the guardians of the Coldwood, whose duty prevents them from leaving the material plane.

    Quote:
    • I've heard somewhere that Tolkein's elves were mainly based on Nordic myth while Gygax intended Greyhawk's elves to derive more from Celtic/Irish myth.


    In the February 1976 issue of The Strategic Review, Rob Kuntz refers to a company of elves as "curly-toed midgets" and "Rip Van Winkles," suggesting the original D&D group didn't see elves as particularly Tolkienesque. Gygax was more a fan of The Hobbit than The Lord of the Rings, and I think his initial take on elves was more like the singing wood-elves that Bilbo met than the more dignified elves of Tolkien's later works.

    In the Chainmail rules, "elves" and "fairies" were synonymous, and they were mostly distinguished by their ability to turn invisible. In the original D&D rules, we were told that the elven ability to be almost invisible was due to their "gray-green cloaks"—the origin of the cloaks of elvenkind of later editions. We were also told they could switch between the Fighting-Men and Magic-User classes between adventures, and that they came in two kinds: woodland and meadowland.

    The elves that appeared in the 1st edition Monster Manual obviously owe something to Tolkien, with its grey elves, high elves, and wood elves based loosely on Tolkien's Sindar, Noldor, and Silvan. Aquatic elves were Gygax's own innovation and the Drow are based loosely on the svartalfar of Norse myth.

    The elves of the Birthright setting are more Celtic/Irish, but I wouldn't say that's true of default Greyhawk elves.

    But honestly, I think one of Greyhawk's strengths is that it's generic enough fantasy that you can slot any elves you like into it. I'm less interested in the question "what makes Greyhawk elves different" and more interested in "what makes elves interesting to me?"

    Quote:
    Does anyone think the Roger Moore article from Dragon #60 should be authoritative concerning Greyhawk elven personality?


    No, I think you should make your elves however you want them to be. If you prefer their characterization in the Realms or Golarion or Birthright or 3rd edition's Races of the Wild or 5th edition's Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, then you should use the characterization you prefer.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:34 pm  
    Re: Su-El

    Raymond wrote:
    The https://davidleonard-greyhawkmusings.blogspot.com/2019/11/history-of-oerth-part-1-of-grey-elves.html page references an "Oerth Journal" quote, "exploring the South Central portion of Oerth" which to me sounds like Gonduria which is a place referenced in Sagaard novels which are Yarth which is like Oerth. So maybe a portal from Middle-Earth is there. But many of the readers here probably don't like to mix Middle-Earth with Oerth.


    Gonduria is from the novel Dance of Demons by Gary Gygax, page 402: "The three had been chivvied and chased across the whole of the world. From the distant south, through the Moving Islands, up and across Gonduria's vast continent, and thence across the Agitoric Ocean to Western Oerik's shore."
    Encyclopedia Greyhawkaniac

    Joined: May 29, 2018
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    Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:05 pm  
    Re: Su-El

    rasgon wrote:
    Raymond wrote:
    The https://davidleonard-greyhawkmusings.blogspot.com/2019/11/history-of-oerth-part-1-of-grey-elves.html page references an "Oerth Journal" quote, "exploring the South Central portion of Oerth" which to me sounds like Gonduria which is a place referenced in Sagaard novels which are Yarth which is like Oerth. So maybe a portal from Middle-Earth is there. But many of the readers here probably don't like to mix Middle-Earth with Oerth.


    Gonduria is from the novel Dance of Demons by Gary Gygax, page 402: "The three had been chivvied and chased across the whole of the world. From the distant south, through the Moving Islands, up and across Gonduria's vast continent, and thence across the Agitoric Ocean to Western Oerik's shore."


    Gondoria [KNG]
    SAG1 - 151

    Gondorians [PPL]
    SAG1 - 36,37,61,104,110,121,143,145,146,151,153,162,169
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