I was rereading Return to the Tomb of Horrors earlier this week and was struck by the number of "Mystaran" monsters Bruce Cordell imported to Greyhawk via RTH. While RTH was written for 2E, there is more than a little debt to OD&D in the monster selection. One might look on RTH in much the same way the Isle of Dread became Greyhawk in the pages of Dungeon, except RTH takes "Mystaran" monsters and "adopts" them.
Unfortunately, while I thought well of RTH originally, on a reread, I am far more critical. I would have to say now that, while it has lots of potential, that potential is not really realized in the module. So, if you do not have it, you should feel no need to run out and try to find it.
Not sure this is exactly an OD&D post but the folder reminded me of seeing something of OD&D Mystara in RTH, albeit updated to 2E.
After reading this I have to say that I am curious as to why you dont like the adventure. I have only breifly looked it over myself as I only have it on PDF form which was given to me by a friend along with a horde of other items he was getting rid of so I havent had a chance to look at it in depth yet.. Where there specific things that you didnt like, general feel of it, or whatnot...? _________________ "The only good drow elf is a dead drow elf..."
Not sure this is exactly an OD&D post but the folder reminded me of seeing something of OD&D Mystara in RTH, albeit updated to 2E.
GVD
The Old Lore D&D forum is a special projects folder dedicated to the Basic D&D game system as it can be used in Greyhawk gaming. The introductory post outlining the forum topics by the forum's host, Darva, hadn't been posted at the time you guys began this thread, so we apologize for the confusion.
I'm moving your thread to Greyhawk General, where it is more relevant.
After reading this I have to say that I am curious as to why you dont like the adventure. I have only breifly looked it over myself as I only have it on PDF form which was given to me by a friend along with a horde of other items he was getting rid of so I havent had a chance to look at it in depth yet.. Where there specific things that you didnt like, general feel of it, or whatnot...?
The adventure unfolds in 4 parts.
First, there is a setup that features the "Dark Intrusion," but it is so plainly pretextual that I found it unsatisfying. For something like RTH, I'd either go with no pretext (leaving theset up to the DM) or set it up with more "meat" and complexity.
Second, when the party gets to the Tomb, they encounter the necromancer city that has grown up around it. As written, this is too much filler. Only one NPC in the city has penetrated beyond the tomb; the rest are just sitting around and do not appear to be up to much. The entire "Black Academy" struck me as silly. This is essentially an archeological dig, not Hogwarts. The main NPCs also seemed just kind of there, without any real connection beyond the most obvious. You'd at least think the politics would be ruthless among that many necromancers. But no.
Third, there is the actual Tomb of Horrors, the classic. EGGs brilliance completely outshines the new add ons and is a completely different sort of adventure. EGG is all tricks and traps. The new materials are too much kill the monster, and those monsters are not varied enough, IMO, to be interesting for as long as part four goes on.
Fourth, once past the actual Tomb, you come to the City of Moil. It is both dumb in its design - it is not really a "city" at all, in more than one sense - and dull. The monster selection is fairly narrow and the adventure just drags. There is no sense of impending doom as in the Tomb. Huge potential here that is largely poorly developed. The whole Orcus "sleep" background/explaination made design easier but play duller.
Finally, we confront Acererak, again. I can buy his plan for universal domination. Nice touch. But his methodology is so contrived and dumb as to stretch credulity past the breaking point. I did not buy the whole "recruitment" angle. I also thought the final decision the PCs must make in the confrontation to be a big fake out to try to keep Acererak alive as a continuing threat. And lastly fighting Acererak at the end is too similar in many respects to fighting him in theTomb.
To me RTH reads like a grand first draft. But the author then needed to go back and spruce things up so that the new material worked better with the old material.
I was also hoping for those cool Greyhawk "nuggests" - loose ends that are interesting but then left to the DM as the main plot forges ahead. I found only two. Ngise's Tome and the reference to the College of Wizardry - Mt. Mathmagahma - which is a pet subject of mine, and actually why I started the reread (I remembered a link but couldn't recall where in RTH or the context).
Egads. Your review makes it sound awful. Why did you like it in the first place?
When I first got RTH, it was big, featured necromancers, tied into one of my favorite all time modules, the original Tomb of Horrors, and worked, in general terms, with the campaign I was running (in the SE).
IMC, the PCs, discovering that some necromancers were messing with theTomb, reacted violently (having been through the original). They did not want _anything_ either "learned from" or "released from" the Tomb. The PCs visceral reactions overcame the faults in RTH that I now see with 20/20 hindsight.
Rereading RTH, my opinion has changed as it focuses more on just RTH as RTH, and not as it was used IMC. _________________ GVD
I have to admit GVDammerung, your review is short sited and I have to feel that you need to go back and re-read the work once more.
This a very good product. and it really catched the flavor of the 1e game quite well. I really enjoyed the book of art that came with the boxed set and the prop pages that came with it. The journal was a nice touch. I also like the picture of the wall in the City of Necromancers. It sets up a nice role-playing sceen and gives the players a chance to have a glipse into the big bad's life before he became the villian that he is. Of all the the big villians in module this is the only one that really does this.
As far as borrowing monsters form other game sets, I would be very disappointed if there weren't any borrowed. Whats the point of being an Demi-lich other wise.
"You can be a spirit, travel to other planes of existance..."
"Will I be able to dominate and control other creatures that i meet?"
"No, but you will be able to watch them...."
"Pfft...."
Finally the adventure really explains well what Big A does what he does, the problem with Tomb of Horrors is that it's extremely anti-climatic given todays standards. The Demi-lich isn't just like the Demi-lich in S1, This Demi-lich can pop into any dead body he likes. He can cast spells, and not just spell like abilities. Chances are if you follow the combat set forward in S1 and then switch to the tactics in RttToH, your going to seriously lead your players into a false sense of security.
And Acererack doesn't just sit still in this game, he goes after characters before they get to the end. I don't know about you but if that wouldn't fill me with dread, I don't know what would.
the problem with Tomb of Horrors is that it's extremely anti-climatic given todays standards.
Yes.
And I found the whole "chosen ones" incredibly lame, upon due reflection.
What really got me on the reread was the squandered potential. You used just the right word - "anti-climatic." RTH is full of potential that the author either fails to develop or "ties up with a bow" in away that doesn't satisfy, IMO.
Since one may now have to pay "collector" prices for RTH, I advise caution. If you can find it at "used" prices, pick it up. IMO. _________________ GVD
Well I just have to treat your reviews a suspicious in the future.
Folks if you have a time to pick this up as a .pdf, I recommend it, it will be worth your time and money.
Well I just have to treat your reviews a suspicious in the future.
Folks if you have a time to pick this up as a .pdf, I recommend it, it will be worth your time and money.
No argument on either score. _________________ GVD
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