Joined: Sep 14, 2009 Posts: 144 Location: Laporte IN.
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:31 am Post subject: Question #4
Lanthron ask'd me if I would post this poll for him
OK then, why or why not is what it comes down too.
I have killed PC's and have had TPK's in the past. I do however give all of my players at the start of my camp. the "Save My Butt" card. This is a one time use card and could be used for anything. From not falling to your death to a one time "20"
Joined: Feb 26, 2004 Posts: 2323 Location: Ullinois
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:41 am Post subject:
I am certainly NOT a killer DM. I've only TPKed once in my career and most of the time my goal is to make the PCs screw up bad enough to kill themselves. I also sometimes like to make life so difficult they'd wish their character was dead. Heh heh.
Joined: Oct 06, 2008 Posts: 2527 Location: South-Central Pennsylvania
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject:
I voted "yes" only because I allow it to happen. Statements made on other threads may have mislead some.
What I do not allow is Total Party Kills (TPKs). I will not allow the entire party to die. I am telling a story, not "hack and slashing."
That's what some here do, and by that I mean: "Hey! We'll just start the game again!"
Sorry . . . no. I'm taking my players from point "A" to point "B." I'm not interested in starting all over again because they all went and got killed. No one enjoys that and no one has fun with that. No, they don't.
If one, or two, get killed along the way . . . so be it. I allow Resurrection and Raise Dead, so . . . not a problem. That's why we have Clerics in the game -- even though some will disagree.
So, yes, I allow characters to die, but I don't deliberately try to kill them off.
Joined: Aug 17, 2004 Posts: 875 Location: Computer Desk
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:36 pm Post subject:
I guess I"m like most here; I have fudged to prevent (TPK). For me the story is paramount and to wipe out an entire party thus ending the storyline over an unlucky role seems unfair. However, a few fatalities that encourage the rest to strive to resurrect them and hopefully teach the slain to be more cautious, next time is fine with me.
Joined: Sep 09, 2009 Posts: 1603 Location: SW WA state (Highvale)
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject:
'Zemo, thanks for being my poll herald. Apologies for my ineptitude.
Ok, now to my answer, and the reason why.
I replied "Yes," b/c I think that encompasses the "Sometimes" answer. To me, either you do or do not allow characters to die.
Earlier in the evolution of my DMing career, I was much harsher, I think. I would be lying if I said I never did a Total Party Kill. I don't think so, but I've been playing this game for over 20 yrs now. So I won't make a blanket statement like that.
However, in recent memory, NO, I have not run a TPK. I've slain NUMEROUS NPCs who were major figures in a party, and even totally freaked out a player when I killed his paladin's brother. To me, (solid, important) NPCs are (slightly) more expendable than PCs. The rest may as well be canon fodder.
I don't like killing PCs, but I will. If you make a foolish, reckless choice, I have little sympathy if your PC dies. If you think that you can defeat every foe because 'the good guys always win,' think again. You're in for a real shock in my game. Sometimes the best option is to RUN (yes, Heironeans, this means you, too!) or evade the enemy entirely, and live to fight another day (and perhaps get into a better tactical position for a victory).
I think the bloodiest game I've run recently was my Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth saga. More characters, mainly NPCs, have died in that game than I can count offhand. True, I added a 'curve ball' to the plotline by having two rival factions (one loyal to Iuz, the other loyal to Lerrek the lich) vying for the hidden treasures within, and those two groups garnered more victims than the creatures of the Caverns themselves! It has turned into an epic campaign, largely because of the lethality, the risks, and the definitive Good vs. Evil undertone. And maybe, just maybe, the rewards will be worth it in the end...
In short, YES, I kill characters. But I don't go out of my way to do it as a matter of being vindictive, and surely don't make a habit out of it.
Joined: Jul 26, 2010 Posts: 1658 Location: LG Dyvers
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject:
I had to have 100+ player kills under my belt in order to even be considered as a writer for Total Party Kill Games. My initiation into the company was to lead my current players into a TPK which they could not avoid.
Seriously, though, I am a killer DM, but I almost always allow for raise dead/resurrection/reincarnation/etc. I like my players to know that if they choose to act foolishly, they will almost certainly die horribly or survive via an epic comedy of blunders on the part of the bad guys (horrible rolls on my part). They pay through the nose for coming back to life, but I want them to be able to keep their characters if they want to.
Joined: Jul 10, 2003 Posts: 1130 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject:
Character death happens. I often give players enough rope to hang themselves. Though death is not always the answer, sometimes it is necessary. I prefer to bruise and batter my players. I never had a TPK, but have been close a few times. I was willing to have a TPK twice in my dming career. Both times were a world encompassing event in were even in death the players would be remembered as heroes.
Like Bon Jovi said shot down in a blaze of glory! However, when character death does occur I take issue with players who bitch about it. Luckily this has not happened often. I make the point that ever npc is my player as the DM and I don't know many players that refuse to kill the BBEG I worked so hard on creating and developing, just so the party can pwn him several sessions later.
Though IMC one must work with a cleric of a god of death to bargain for the soul of their lost friend. Though reincarnation can be done by driuds or cleric's of life healing rebirth or nature.
Joined: Sep 09, 2009 Posts: 1603 Location: SW WA state (Highvale)
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:21 am Post subject:
Nobody likes to have their favorite character killed. Some people handle it in better stride than others. I've known some (few) people who totally flip out, tossing their dice, storming off, complaining, and the like. Not my style. Granted, the few times it's happened to me, I may get a bit sullen, but freaking out and 'bitching.' No. There's always that potential chance for a Raise Dead or the more rare and powerful Resurrection. Most of my fellow gamers are more mature and handle it better. There's been only one time I can recall where my best friend 'flipped out,' (and that was over an NPC's death!) but I called him out on it, and he chilled. Typically, though, my players are good about accepting the 'reality' that in this game, death is a potential outcome.
Why are there so few knights in this world?
Sometimes...the DRAGON wins!
I haven't voted yet, because, as a DM, I don't kill PCs. I've seen a variety of NPCs kill (and sometimes, eat) PCs, I've seen one killed by another player, I've seen one who died of hypothermia (it was a contest between that or starvation) and there was one memorable suicide by drowning. But at no point have I, as a DM, ever killed any character, PC or NPC.
baronzemo wrote:
...I do however give all of my players at the start of my camp. the "Save My Butt" card...
-I allow every PC one "gimme" (they are a special breed), but it's only for when they otherwise would have been killed (i.e. -10 hit points). With one exception.
Mystic-Scholar wrote:
...What I do not allow is Total Party Kills (TPKs). I will not allow the entire party to die. I am telling a story...
-Sometimes, the story I happens to involve TPK.
This is partly a difference in philosophy.
I'm not "telling" a story. If I want to do that, I could throw away the rules and the dice and just make up stories, and then put those stories in the second person:
Jim: "And then, Bill, you decided to stop at the big Inn with the sleeping dragon on the sign..."
Bill: "I did? Cool."
I don't see the fun in that. I want to be surprised as much at the outcome as much as the PCs. The way I see it, I'm "discovering" the story along with the players, based on "the world as it is," their decisions, and a little unpredictable randomness provided by funny looking dice.
Mystic-Scholar wrote:
...I'm taking my players from point "A" to point "B."
-If the party gets wiped out, that's an adventure hook that brings out the next group to find out what happened, or maybe look for pay back (I'm planning that for Orlane and Restenford). The story continues...
Lanthorn wrote:
...Nobody likes to have their favorite character killed. Some people handle it in better stride than others. I've known some (few) people who totally flip out, tossing their dice, storming off, complaining, and the like...
-When one of my PCs killed another PC, I think the victim was about to cry. He got to drive the victor home. I'll have to ask how that went down. But they both got over it.
Joined: Jul 10, 2003 Posts: 1130 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject:
James,
I also had a PC kill another PC in my game. The worst part is other players were cheering kill him, kill him. Then when one really died they told the victor he was messed up how could he kill someones character. It was funny as the reason for the PC splat had to do with the other player interferring with his roleplaying, so he killed the guys character.
Joined: Jul 10, 2003 Posts: 1130 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject:
No when the party found out several months later in game they took him down and both players had new characters after that the problem never resurfaced.
Joined: Oct 06, 2008 Posts: 2527 Location: South-Central Pennsylvania
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject:
jamesdglick wrote:
Mystic-Scholar wrote:
...What I do not allow is Total Party Kills (TPKs). I will not allow the entire party to die. I am telling a story...
-Sometimes, the story I happens to involve TPK.
This is partly a difference in philosophy.
Mystic-Scholar wrote:
...I'm taking my players from point "A" to point "B."
-If the party gets wiped out, that's an adventure hook that brings out the next group to find out what happened, or maybe look for pay back (I'm planning that for Orlane and Restenford). The story continues...
James, have you ever read any of my stories? Some of that comes from my games. An author doesn't kill off all of his "heroes."
Joined: Sep 09, 2009 Posts: 1603 Location: SW WA state (Highvale)
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:38 am Post subject:
I suppose this perspective boils down to, are you a DM who prefers the characters to drive the plot, or the plot to drive the characters (or a mixture of both).
Joined: Oct 06, 2008 Posts: 2527 Location: South-Central Pennsylvania
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:10 am Post subject:
Lanthorn wrote:
. . . Are you a DM who prefers the characters to drive the plot, or the plot to drive the characters . . .
Actually, it depends on what you're doing, what you're trying to accomplish.
Say you have four main characters in your story, that 's four different personalities. Each of them will handle the exact, same situation four very different ways.
Sometimes, instead of creating four distinct personalities for myself -- I use my players. So, killing them all off, simply won't do. In this case, I -- a.k.a. Holy Pelor -- drive the characters.
If we're just "gaming," running a module, etc., then whatever happens, happens. The characters drive the plot.
It depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
Most here do not use the game for "story information." You're just "gaming."
Knock yourselves out. I was merely explaining what I do and why I do it. Your way is wrong for me, my way is of no value to you.
Joined: Feb 16, 2003 Posts: 2909 Location: So. Cal
Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject:
Oh, I kill characters, though not purposely. When players paint their characters into a corner, it is up to them to survive. Action and inaction both have have consequences. Good lesson to teach your players. Tends to smarten them up a bit, and prevents foolish actions and character deaths afterwards (usually). _________________ - Moderator/Admin/Member
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Could be Mystic Scholar, though I like all melons! 
