I thought he was a former "noble" of Greyhawk... which while that doesn't necissarily mean he didn't come from else where would seem to indicate that he probably came from Greyhawk originaly. I could be wrong though, his original write up in WPM simply states that he was a "respected knight of the realm".
I didn't/don't think there is anything official on this, but figured I'd ask. The reason I'm wondering is I've been looking for any use in the canon of nobiliary particles, such as "of" in John of Gaunt, "de" in Roger de Mortimer or "von" in Otto von Habsburg. I know Bluto Sans Pite probably should be translated as Bluto Without Pity in bastard French ( A suitable name for a mass murderer, and I'm assuming he was styled on Gilles de Rais) but I'm considering using Sans as a nobiliary particle IMC. Of course I'd need to decide from what language?
I guess I should change the question to "anyone know of any uses of nobiliary particles in canon?" Well, other than "of"?
Bluto is described as a "paunchy, red-haired man," in River of Blood, so he was likely of Suel ancestry. That doesn't really help to pinpoint his birthplace, though.
Bluto is described as a "paunchy, red-haired man," in River of Blood, so he was likely of Suel ancestry. That doesn't really help to pinpoint his birthplace, though.
That fits with my latest thinking which is to make it a Suel word used in the names of knights and other nobles in Keoland, the Urnsts and other places that might have Suel-influences on their language.
I guess I should change the question to "anyone know of any uses of nobiliary particles in canon?" Well, other than "of"?
There is the case of Count Imiric von Suss-Varren, a one-time henchman of Otiluke who is one of the pregenerated PCs for Vecna Lives!. He is a gnome noble from the Principality of Ulek.
S2 White Plume Mountain page 11 (orange covor edition) wrote:
Sir Bluto himself was a respected Knight of the Realm before his indictment in the River of Blood mass-murder case. His mysterious disappearance from prison left even the Royal Magician-Detectives baffled, and a reward of 10,000 g.p. was posted for his capture. Someone in the party is sure to recognize his one-of-a-kind face. Sir Bluto: AC: -1 (shield+1, plate mail +2); 10th level fighter; HP: 50; +2 to hit, +4 damage. He carries the magic key to the secret doors (25) and is wearing boots of striding and springing.
and
COR1-03 River of Blood wrote:
A portrait above the stairs on the eastern wall displays a pauncy, red-haired man of regal appearance wearing a breastplate and wielding a rapier in a gentemanly pose. Even from a distance, the man's eyes seem to hold a powerful, and perhaps malevolent, glare. [snip] The portrait on the east wall is of Sir Bluto, painted some ten years before his disgrace."
Jason Zavoda's index doesn't shed any further light on him, either. I don't recall if As He Lay Dying had any more info, and can't seem to find my copy to check (anyone?). _________________ Allan Grohe<br />https://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html<br />https://grodog.blogspot.com/
There is the case of Count Imiric von Suss-Varren, a one-time henchman of Otiluke who is one of the pregenerated PCs for Vecna Lives!. He is a gnome noble from the Principality of Ulek.
Poor Count Imric has been stripped of his title, and rendered persona non grata as a result of someone deciding the Principality of Ulek should only have dwarven nobles in the LGG.
Poor Count Imric has been stripped of his title, and rendered persona non grata as a result of someone deciding the Principality of Ulek should only have dwarven nobles in the LGG.
Maybe someone left out the "major" before "noble houses" like they have in the entry for the Duchy of Ulek? Otherwise, yeah that's a little extreme for such a "cosmopolitan" state.
We also have a use of "van" in VECNA LIVES! in the author of "The True Relation of the Nyr Dyv and the Lands Surrounding," Norfil van Defflitter.
I agree that Sir Bluto Sans Pite was probably based on the Arthurian villain, Sir Bruese Sans Pite (meaning: Sir Bruce Without Pity). He was a dastardly knight who acted in direct contradiction to all codes of chivalry.
However, I remember reading somewhere that 'pite' had a similar meaning to 'pale', which was a stone marking a land boundary. This led to the reasoning that 'Sans Pite' could mean 'without land'. I like this particular possibility, but my own research has not verified that this is true and I can't remember, or find, where I first read that.
EDIT: the word "pale" used as a noun returns the following meanings from Webster's:
1
: an area or the limits within which one is privileged or protected (as from censure)
conduct that was beyond the pale
2
a
: a space or field having bounds : enclosure
The cattle were led into the pale.
b
: a territory or district within certain bounds or under a particular jurisdiction
British culture survived even within the Roman pale.
So, it's possible that Bluto sans Pite could be returned as Bluto sans Pale in one instance. Meaning he is a knight without land.
I don't think 'pite' and 'pale' have any linguistic similarity (Latin pietas vs. Latin palus), but in the sense that they are expressing something about norms of conduct they overlap in meaning. However, that is an old meaning of pite (dutiful conduct, faithfulness to natural ties) compared with a new meaning of pale (accepted behaviors), and doubtful that they evolved together or referenced one another.
However, close enough for campaign work, and if you want sans Pite to mean "landless" (like the nickname for King John of England, 'John Lackland') that works just fine.
Of special note in Greyhawk though is the nation of the Pale, where Gygax lampshaded the expression 'beyond the Pale' to describe a theocratic state whose boundaries define righteousness and where going beyond those boundaries means venturing into the lands of heathens, heretics, and apostates.
So if "pite" relates to "pale" for you, might it also relate to the Pale? Is Sir Bluto sans Pite, "Bluto not from the Pale" when compared to the much more famous "Bluto of the Pale"?
Is this a personal nickname or a family name? That is, is Bluto specifically not from the Pale, or is he descended from a family that was marked as not being from the Pale?
Or, drawing on the meaning of sans,
[1275–1325; ME ‹ OF sans, earlier sens, seinz a conflation of L sine without, and absentiā in the absence of, abl. of absentia absence]
could "sans Pite" even mean "no longer from the Pale" - a family that was originally from the Pale, but which left and are now 'in absence' of their homeland? _________________ My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI
I don't think 'pite' and 'pale' have any linguistic similarity (Latin pietas vs. Latin palus), but in the sense that they are expressing something about norms of conduct they overlap in meaning. However, that is an old meaning of pite (dutiful conduct, faithfulness to natural ties) compared with a new meaning of pale (accepted behaviors), and doubtful that they evolved together or referenced one another.
However, close enough for campaign work, and if you want sans Pite to mean "landless" (like the nickname for King John of England, 'John Lackland') that works just fine.
Of special note in Greyhawk though is the nation of the Pale, where Gygax lampshaded the expression 'beyond the Pale' to describe a theocratic state whose boundaries define righteousness and where going beyond those boundaries means venturing into the lands of heathens, heretics, and apostates.
So if "pite" relates to "pale" for you, might it also relate to the Pale? Is Sir Bluto sans Pite, "Bluto not from the Pale" when compared to the much more famous "Bluto of the Pale"?
Is this a personal nickname or a family name? That is, is Bluto specifically not from the Pale, or is he descended from a family that was marked as not being from the Pale?
Or, drawing on the meaning of sans,
[1275–1325; ME ‹ OF sans, earlier sens, seinz a conflation of L sine without, and absentiā in the absence of, abl. of absentia absence]
could "sans Pite" even mean "no longer from the Pale" - a family that was originally from the Pale, but which left and are now 'in absence' of their homeland?
Well, that's an awesome explanation. You did some brilliant work here. I am in awe of your research.
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