As some of you might already know, I am putting together an epic long campaign placed in Verbobonc and focusing on the both ToEE modules. Now, since I’ve already experienced T1-T4 as a player and since ToEE and RttToEE are some of the most popular game accessoires ever, I’d like to know what kind of experiences you’ve made and what possible changes you applied to them to enhance your game, so that I can learn where to focus to action...
***My Players – Read that and I swear that in our next session I will have you having a rendezvous with a sex-hungry Owlbear***
I’d basically thought of a main (very long) campaign concept:
I’d start with ToEE, then or in between insert the Elsidell adventure from OJ 10, and after the defeat or freeing of Zuggtmoy, let my characters play some short adventure in the Gnarley Forest.
Then, as it’s obvious that high level characters would have it too easy with RttToEE, I’d thought of confronting them with an assault of Lareth, based on the module Black Rain and let them die or be so badly wounded that they are unable to fight any longer. (There, the temple of St. Cuthbert would be the Hommlet one). (If they survived, I’d just sent them to the Tomb of Horrors...)
Then I had thought of starting RttToEE after some introductory adventure...
Now that is a LOT of gaming and I am very conscient that it may take years to play it, but I am that kind of DM that thinks that atmosphere is a result of meticulous planning... :D
Any thoughts, ideas, and of course, recollections?
In my game I got rid of room 207-208 or should I say I changed it. The Pearlescent Room doesn’t fool anyone and in my opinion is just silly. Also I allowed Zuggtmoy to have more inner action with the party. For example I had her contact and seduce one of my players with promises of great power and wealth if that person would help her to escape, and so far it is working. This also makes room for some great role-playing.
What you mean "epic long campaign"? After ToEE and following modules your PCs will near 20-th levels. For "starting RttToEE after some introductory adventure" you will need 1-st level PCs. How you will resolve this problem? Or it will new PCs?
Zuggtmoy acting a bit more is really more realistic than the older version, so I thought about it too.
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*Epic long* may be one of my spanglish word formations... I meant that the campaign, if played at full extent would be a question of years...
After ToEE and one or two shorter sequels, m yparty should be about lvl 11, I think... Then their characters are supposed to retire and to show up in the RttToEE as NPCs. (As an Interlude between the two campaign I planned an encounter with a mysterious man in a black cloak, later revealed to be the crippled Lareth.)
Well Ivid, I wouldn't screw over the PC's when they are higher level so they can't go into the RttToEE. That is not a cool way to reward hopefully well-played characters. I'd encourage the players to create new characters shortly after the ToEE that might adventure with some of the higher level PC's as their henchmen, or just run off on their own.
In the game Ars Magica (which really revolves around wizard characters), players are encouraged to form wizard conclaves, with each player's wizard character being one of the main members. The conclave is served by various underlings, which are made up of the players' other characters (warriors, rogues, the occasional priest, courtiers, diplomats, apprentices, woodsman, laborers, etc.). You need not have the high level characters form a conclave. They need only be associated due to their past adventures. The high level characters might hear of a reawakening ToEE, contact each other, and agree to each send representatives (the lower level characters) to the City of Greyhawk or to Verbobonc to meet up and go on the RttToEE adventure.
To relate this to your campaign, the original (now high level) characters that went into the ToEE might be given much more important duties by you the DM, such that they might send in lower level minions to investigate a re-awakening ToEE in the RttToEE adventure, as the high level PC's have an interest in the place (having adventured through the place in the past). You might choose to have some of the lower level characters accompany one or more of the higher level ones as their henchmen, be hired to go on adventures by them, or owe them a debt and be sent on the adventure as a means of repaying the debt. There are many options available other than killing off, mutilating, or imprisoning all of the high level characters. This idea serves to further build upon your campaign by making the original characters be people of influence while still allowing the lower level characters to be in the spot light too.
Perhaps one or two of the high level characters will lead the lower level characters into the dreaded ToEE in the RttToEE adventure, similar to Gandalf leading the Fellowship of the Ring on their quest. There are all kinds of things you can do as the DM. I hope these ideas help. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Well Ivid, I wouldn't screw over the PC's when they are higher level so they can't go into the RttToEE. That is not a cool way to reward hopefully well-played characters. I'd encourage the players to create new characters shortly after the ToEE that might adventure with some of the higher level PC's as their henchmen, or just run off on their own.
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The high level characters might hear of a reawakening ToEE, contact each other, and agree to each send representatives (the lower level characters) to the City of Greyhawk or to Verbobonc to meet up and go on the RttToEE adventure.
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You might choose to have some of the lower level characters accompany one or more of the higher level ones as their henchmen, be hired to go on adventures by them, or owe them a debt and be sent on the adventure as a means of repaying the debt.
Thank you, Cebrion. - Of course, I'd not simply kill the characters off so they don't stand in my way any more, but let them retire the most logical way possible... I thought a big final tragic battle would work as such...
Basically, I am not *enjoying* to tear them down; it's just that most fantasy games IMO don't allow *realism*; I mean, they meet some lesser gods, supposedly butcher a demon and go out unharmed... I want somehow to give them that *a duel in the Rain feeling*, when they defend Hommlet against Lareth's forces a last time... Or something like that...
An interesting discussion. I'm on the same page with you, Ivid (I think), in that a past frustration I've had with my players is that they took danger far too lightly. It's a good thing if you instill fear in your players, in my opinion. When you enter a dungeon, death really is just around every corner, and I think it's important to translate some of that fear from the character to the player.
When I write up a day's worth of role-playing for my PCs, my intent is to make the difficulty level such that one PC SHOULD bite the dust. If they play poorly and/or don't use their heads, the body count could grow quickly - I'm not opposed to wiping out an entire party; it's one of the reasons each of my players has 3-4 characters in different parties throughout the Flanaess at any given time. However, if they all bring their 'A' game and make wise decisions, they can all make it through the day intact.
One of my players (not coincidentally, a guy who runs a Realms campaign in which I've NEVER had a character die) thinks I'm too harsh, but the feedback from all the others has been positive - they like being kept on their toes throughout, and feel a real sense of accomplishment at the end of a session they've lived through. And for the record, there's no better drama than seeing a longstanding character cut down in the midst of an epic battle with a major baddie. My PCs lost a paladin last year that had been in existence for several years, in the final battle of the mega-adventure Night Below.
It was a memorable sendoff for a character who'd forgotten more about adventuring than most characters will ever know, and his heroic final sacrifice cemented his legacy and legend. The players truly felt a sense of mourning; we spent quite a bit of time detailing the subsequent funeral and burial. That battle is still talked about by my players to this day. What more could you ask for?
I know I didn't answer your actual question, but that's because I don't have anything pertinent to add (other than you could do a lot worse than ToEE as a starting point, and I wouldn't plan TOO far ahead, or you run the risk of putting blinders on your PCs. I suspect once the campaign starts playing out, the next direction will become apparent to you.)
Thank you for the support, brgrover! Although I don't think this is really a discussion, but a veryx profitable exchange of ideas for me.
RPG is about fun, after all, but players should always feel that they're dealing with a realistic situation... Nothing is more annoying than players doing nothing but nonsense because they think that the DM won't harm them. That's okay if it is made clear from the beginning, but if some player
IMC, PC are supposed to be knocked out somehow and be forced to retire, so that the characters become part of the gaming world... However, that's in the far future, and one will see if they even make it so far.
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*Epic long* may be one of my spanglish word formations... I meant that the campaign, if played at full extent would be a question of years...
Although I don't think this is really a discussion, but a veryx profitable exchange of ideas for me.
