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Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:28 am Next Question

Lanthorn put me up to it Evil

Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:31 am

Lawful Neutral Rules lawyer here. Furthermore, as a DM I roll my dice in the open (unless it's a secret die roll - like an unknown monster's spot check)

Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:36 am

Haven't I always said that the Source Books are merely Guidelines?

"Other people" -- which is what the Source Books are -- do not tell me how to run my game.
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Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:41 am Re: Next Question

Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:14 am

More of a guideline; as the core rule is to have fun.
I tend to follow the rules but also have used my judgement on the fly to keep the flow of the game going. Nothing more depressing then to ger on a roll, pun intended, then have the atmosphere ruined by a research project for some obscure line on page whatever.
Of course, then others want to use it or else remember their own rule but by then the gameplay becomes - haven't used this trick in a long time. Hey, it happens.
I would rather maintain the atmosphere and momentum with a quick ruling, even if its wrong and deal with it later then waste precious time.

Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:44 am

Rulings over rules.

Back to the story.

Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:00 pm

Rules are a guideline. Besides any rules lawyer who has started something in my game I always refer him to the forward Gary Gygax wrote in the first edition players handbook. All the rules contained within are guidelines. The ultimate decision on what works and what does not work is up to you as the Dungeon Master.

So know the rules yes. Use them to adjudicate everything no! Sometimes they are the solution, other times they are not. If someone wants to tell me how to play my game I expect them to be flipping the bill. Otherwise play your game and I'll play mine.

We all have our opinions on what works and what does not work. We can discuss this at length which is fine. However, what works for you may not work for me. In the end we can agree that the thing that makes the game the most fun is having a group of like minded individuals share their experience and camaraderie with each other.

Later

Argon

Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:51 pm

"Rules are a guideline."

Kinda reminds me of those Pirates of the Carribbean movies... where the Pirate's Code are merely 'guidelines.' Wink

"In the end we can agree that the thing that makes the game the most fun is having a group of like minded individuals share their experience and camaraderie with each other."

Anyone out there wanna share MY mind??? Shocked

-Lanthorn

Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:45 pm

Lanthorns mind or the Abyss?

I'll get back to you on that one. Laughing

Later

Argon

Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:02 pm

Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:45 am

I'll paraphrase the great Captain Barbossa on this one:

"... And thirdly, the code is more what you would call "guidelines" than actual rules."

Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:21 am

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:07 pm

As a professional editor and writer, I have to stick to the rules, so I voted for Rules Lawyer.

However, in my own campaign, I have no problem altering rules that I think need fixing so that they work better for me and my group.

SirXaris

Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:19 pm

Sir Xaris,

That would make you a person who is not a rules lawyer. As your profession dictates you follow the rules while you make rule decisions in your game that might differ from the rules. So the latter is a choice while the previous is not an option.

Later

Argon

Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:16 am Re: Next Question

Again, I haven't voted one way or t'other.

Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:23 am

"If I'm not busy, I'll be ready with 8 pages worth. "

Shocked

Mine aren't that long, but I do have a pretty decent collection of 'house rules' as well. I don't try to ignore or alter 'canon,' but, sometimes, I admit that I will totally disregard or alter something that either doesn't make sense to me, or that I just plain don't like. With regard to timelines, I do my best to follow them, but sometimes it can't be helped. This mainly comes into play when I have already run PCs through an adventure only to find out later in some sourceguide that, according to the 'timeline,' the adventure should've occurred at a different time. Oh well...

-Lanthorn

Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:05 pm

Some people will strictly follow all rules. Other people will not. To me the only time it is important to stick within the confines of canon is when you are publishing an officially licensed product for the owner of the IP. If its for fan use, or, your campaign alone, then change whatever you like.

People have been altering game rules for years. I can play monopoly with several different groups of people and each one will have a different house rule that changes or alters the rules listed with the product. Its your game do what you like and forget the rest.

Later

Argon

Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:06 am

Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:30 am Yeah, I'm a Lawyer

But I'm alright with loopholes. There are so many rules that while I make an attempt to follow lots of them, there is no way to follow everything and still be playing a game.

For example, segments--really? Maybe that should be a poll question.

Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:45 pm

Hey Raymond,

Segments were ok it helped define action more so for spells. It was sort of a spells speed factor. So after initiative you could say this and that went off on this time and so forth.

Later

Argon

Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:26 pm

How many people actually use the helmet rules and the rules in the DD&G about elves coming back to life one way but not the other (reincarnation vs. raise dead) and age of character affecting stats and gender affecting stats, and etc. I think it's one reason so many groups have different ways of playing. It's not like Scrabble for better or for worse.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:30 am

I've posted this time and again, but people need to learn what a Rules Lawyer is, because it seems that tons of people like to toss the term around without actually knowing what it means, this thread being yet another example of it (yes, this is a pet peeve of mine).

Rules Lawyer: somebody who argues rules to their own benefit, not necessarily to clarify them.

Yes, 99.99% of time the term "Rules Lawyer" is a derogatory term for a gamer who interprets rules in their own favor so as to garner an edge of some sort. Kinda like lawyers do with the law, but in this case it is being done with game rules. Rules...Lawyer. Get it?

Somebody who clarifies rules/arbitrates them is a JUDGE, also known as a DM in our particular gaming circle.

Enlightenment can penetrate even the helm of iron.
Evil which cannot be removed must be eliminated.
Foolishness can be beaten.
Lawful correction lies in a stout billet.
Capricious behavior brings knots to the heads of those lacking wisdom.
Preach quietly, but have a large cudgel handy.
Razz

From what I gather, this poll is intended to ascertain the following:

Poll option 1: I strictly follow all of the rules as presented in the rulebooks.

Poll option 2: Rules are a guide, but are not set in stone.

Considering the above options, I am one of those Option 2 people (which doesn't preclude actually knowing what the rules are to begin with Wink

). Many people like to be told what they can do, and live inside the box, which is great for those gaming groups who are anal retentive about the rules they use being in print, in an official product of some kind, etc. (IIRC, I think mortellan could tell some stories relating to this Laughing

). Others see the rules as a foundation to built off of, and add to/alter the rules freely, which is great for those gaming groups that are not anal retentive about the rules, and see any addition to/altering of the rules as a means to an end, rather than as just a way for DMs to screw with the players. Neither group is better than the other, as even rules (usually creature, spells, and magic item rules) can be used as the basis for telling a good story. In either case, it all has to do with the the presentation.

Enter the DM...
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Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:59 am

I think we've all been told.

-Lanthorn, casts "Protection from Purple Lightning" (should I make it double strength?!)

note: Ceb, you're not the only one with pet peeves...I won't even start about mine, as it would take more pages than even my 'house rules' amendments... Wink

Judging by all the great quotes, I am gonna take a wild guess that you are a reverer of St Cuthbert.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:06 pm

Cebrion,

I'm getting you a shirt that reads Rules Lawyer with the definition above for you. Wink

Though I have a question if your a cheese head, then how did you become the purple lighting? Me thinks you've spent some time in a viking's helmet. Laughing

Later

Argon

Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:15 pm

Impudent mortal! The purple lighting goes with this:

Now, get back to doing what you do best:

Ah, the sweet tears of crying Bears. Razz

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Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:50 pm

@ Cebrion, Alright Hagar! That was a good one! Laughing

Get back to your cult duties. You serve a fitting deity for a cheesehead, after all cold is in the portfolio. Razz

Chat with you later.

Argon