The new D&D 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide II (two) has been released with several pages dedicted to Saltmarsh of the U1-U3 series. A full color map is included. I liked it; I bought it.
Saltmarsh does seem to be a bit bigger than I would have made it, but...
The new D&D 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide II (two) has been released with several pages dedicted to Saltmarsh of the U1-U3 series. A full color map is included. I liked it; I bought it.
Saltmarsh does seem to be a bit bigger than I would have made it, but...
I await GVD's review.
How big did they make it? In the original U1, the town had a population of 2000. And this is supposed to be a number of years after the adventures.
As an aside, which you can feel free to refute, since you've actually read the book-if the Lizard Embassy shown in the DMGII art gallery on WotC's page is part of Saltmarsh, I'd guess that the adventure trilogy led to the region becoming an interspecies political center, with Saltmarsh at the heart.
Unfortunately while using something from Greyhawk, they forgot to check a Greyhawk map while writing. And so Saltmarsh is now swelled in population by refugees from Seaton, which was destroyed by pirates and slavers from the north.
I guess Duke Luschan got sick of Viscount Secunforth, and decided to do away with him.
I gave this section of DMGII a very close once over in my FLGS, as did my wife. We agreed that it was the high spot of DMGII but not worth the $40 asking price, as there is little else to recommend DMGII. I will buy DMGII to get the Saltmarsh material but I will do so via Amazon etc. I will no longer be sucked into paying full retail for lackluster Wotc products that tantalize with GH bits.
That said, and understanding that I was only reading in the FLGS, the Saltmarsh material appears to be something every GH completist will want as well as every GH fan who plays in the SW Flanaess.
Arguably, Saltmarsh has now taken on a much greater prominence in the setting, second only to the CoG itself as a defined urban locale. Saltmarsh has one significant writeup w/map (DMGII), three dedicated adventures and three in all but name adventures (the Sahughin series). I'm very curious to read the DMGII entry more closely to look for any nods to the Sahughin series - a VERY cool development if it exists.
I've never been a Saltmarsh fan but if you are, I think DMGII would be a must buy. _________________ GVD
I gave this section of DMGII a very close once over in my FLGS, as did my wife. We agreed that it was the high spot of DMGII but not worth the $40 asking price, as there is little else to recommend DMGII. I will buy DMGII to get the Saltmarsh material but I will do so via Amazon etc. I will no longer be sucked into paying full retail for lackluster Wotc products that tantalize with GH bits.
GVD, try overstock.com. You can get it there for $26 and some odd cents, including postage. I thought that very reasonable for a new book, and it was cheaper than Amazon (where I usually order most things myself).
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That said, and understanding that I was only reading in the FLGS, the Saltmarsh material appears to be something every GH completist will want as well as every GH fan who plays in the SW Flanaess.
Arguably, Saltmarsh has now taken on a much greater prominence in the setting, second only to the CoG itself as a defined urban locale. Saltmarsh has one significant writeup w/map (DMGII), three dedicated adventures and three in all but name adventures (the Sahughin series). I'm very curious to read the DMGII entry more closely to look for any nods to the Sahughin series - a VERY cool development if it exists.
I've never been a Saltmarsh fan but if you are, I think DMGII would be a must buy.
Agreed. Can't wait for my copy to come in so I can read it in depth.
Chapter 1: Running a Game
This looks to be a bit more in depth instructions for the new DM. As such, I haven't actually read it yet. It looks fair, but useless to the experienced DM.
Chapter 2: Adventures
Similar to the first chapter,, this is mostly samples and a few new rules and ideas. Again, I've barely skimmed this, but it looks adequate.
Chapter 3: Campaigns
Now it moves to overall campaign development. I've read a bit more in this chapter, as it has fairly useful sections on Medieval Society (with a disclaimer!), Towns and Cities, People at Work, and others. I'd say it was total crap if it weren't for the disclaimer, but since they acknowledge it is very generic, I'll give it due credit, and accept it as fairly decent.
Chapter 4: Saltmarsh
Crap. 30 wasted pages of generic blah, completely wasting the Saltmarsh name.
Chapter 5: Nonplayer Characters
This section I liked, and wish it had been developed a lot more. It has some useful charts and information on contacts and hirelings, particularly specialists. The Unique Abilities are silly though, and the Sample Complex NPCs an out of place waste. Had those pages gone to expanding the other parts of the chapter it would have been very good. As a note, the NPCs have a new statistics block, another sign of an impending edition change.
Chapter 6: Characters
Similar to chapter 5. It has a new concept with feats, students and mentors, to give some flavor to special hirelings, and a nice section on running a business. It also introduces Teamwork Benefits, a minor modifier if a group trains something together, as well as Companion Spirits (someone reading Werewolf too much). It also has sections on Designing Prestige Classes and PC Organizations, with some sample organizations. Most of this is just theory, but it is useful theory for the DM who intends to do it. But again, more space on the early sections would have been better.
Chapter 7: Magic Items
Yeah, more toys, including some variant concepts for expanding on items. I wouldn't miss most of this chapter, but there are a few salvageable ideas I guess.
Overall
Eh. For $40 you'll miss your cash unless you are a new DM, in which case the first chapters should make it worth the money. I'm not irked, but I'm not overly thrilled. Don't get it just for Saltmarsh, it isn't worth it for that.
Almost strictly for the GH material I picked up a copy of DMG II, more or less an impulse buy.
Anyways, experienced DMs will have little used for the section describing DMing.
Other then the first section and the Saltmarsh section, I havn't looked much at DMG II.
I've kinda put DMG II on my list of "bathroom reading." That may sound terrible, but it doesn't seem to jump out as being a useful tool as it claims to be.
...........................................Omote
FPQ _________________ Prince Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Castles and Crusades Society
Chapter 4: Saltmarsh
Crap. 30 wasted pages of generic blah, completely wasting the Saltmarsh name.
. . .
Overall
Eh. For $40 you'll miss your cash unless you are a new DM, in which case the first chapters should make it worth the money. I'm not irked, but I'm not overly thrilled. Don't get it just for Saltmarsh, it isn't worth it for that.
I think Sam dismisses the Saltmarsh material too lightly and I think I know why. No one has spent more time that I am aware of considering Keoland than Samwise. The new material is not really linked into the existing pagent of Keolandish development. It is essentially almost all new, as far as I could immediately tell. That doesn't, IMO, make it bad or generic, even while greater use could have been made of Greyhawk's existing history. I think Sam's opinion may be colored by this failure, certainly not unusual in 3rd Edition products, to make less than full use of the Greyhawk setting, especially as Sam has a notable interest in the area.
I do agree with his conclusion, however. Unless you have a particular interest, $40 is a lot for just the Saltmarsh material. _________________ GVD
Well there is little sense in using the Saltmarsh name if you aren't going to fit it into the previous Saltmarsh material.
The map is off, the background is off, and the town itself is just plain blah. Why not just call it Bayouvillage at that rate?
Or what about silliness like a halfling being subverted by Wastri? I guess someone missed that Wastri hates demihumans.
That kind of weak, laziness pervades the whole thing, and gives it thorough GH negative content.
Why not just call it Bayouvillage at that rate?
Or what about silliness like a halfling being subverted by Wastri? I guess someone missed that Wastri hates demihumans.
Maybe someone was taking a slam at someone else who will remain nameless
Or what about silliness like a halfling being subverted by Wastri? I guess someone missed that Wastri hates demihumans.
It would be like a Jewish Neo-Nazi.
Oh wait, I've seen those in real life.
I can definitely see story potential in a villain motivated by a deep loathing of his own race.
Wastri views humanoids as being suitable as servants. He could probably make a temporary exception for a demihuman who could similarly further his agenda.
Why not just call it Bayouvillage at that rate?
Or what about silliness like a halfling being subverted by Wastri? I guess someone missed that Wastri hates demihumans.
Maybe someone was taking a slam at someone else who will remain nameless
Theala
Actually, no.
Saltmarsh = Simplistic Local Terrain Feature Naming Convention = Bayou
I was mocking the lack of significant uniqueness in the original name, and giving an example of how it could easily be switched to something else.
If it works better, call it Fenburg or Swampsville. Or how about Evergladeston?
Or what about silliness like a halfling being subverted by Wastri? I guess someone missed that Wastri hates demihumans.
It would be like a Jewish Neo-Nazi.
Oh wait, I've seen those in real life.
I can definitely see story potential in a villain motivated by a deep loathing of his own race.
Wastri views humanoids as being suitable as servants. He could probably make a temporary exception for a demihuman who could similarly further his agenda.
Except this isn't some player engaging in theater of the absurd, or even Uncle Adolph choosing Yentl the Yeshiva Girl as his Mistress of Propaganda. This is the deity deciding to grant spells to an inferior thing suitable only for killing or temporary slavery.
All I see is background trashing and absurdity.
This is the deity deciding to grant spells to an inferior thing suitable only for killing or temporary slavery.
All I see is background trashing and absurdity.
But then there's also Gary Gygax's comments about Wastri in Dragon #300.
"Without doubt, the claim made by him and his cult for human superiority is spurious, for they revile the human and exalt the batrachian. The demi-human as an inferior worthy only of death is clearly only a ploy to attract followers prejudiced against such races. The true initiates know that The Hopping Prophet has a grander motive: The extinction of humans as they exist in favor of the model based on his form, that of the hybrid of toad and man."
Well I would have posted here earlier if I had not missed the thread. Oh well. Contrary to most of you, I found the DMG II very useful. I would like to think that I am an experianced DM, having run for 25 years or so.
I found the first section very interesting. Many of the ideas on DM craft I have used for years. I have not the hubris to claim that I was using all of them. As I have seen many of the same questions posted to CF over the last few years, I think many people would find it useful. Specific threads addressed (with good advice I thought) were the thief that steals from the party, the Paladin who is a self righteous pain and the player who rewrites your game to suit him... all of whom have been addressed here (albeit free) in the last 12 months.
I think many of you should also note this: you are fans of the OLDEST published D&D setting... thus by extension your are probably among the oldest and most experianced D&D players out there... or you learned from the oldest. So, I think for the vast majority of DMs this would be very useful. Particularly fans of newer and inferior settings such as
Eb#$%&*.
The campaigns section, I feel, is actually quite useful, and should have been applied to GH years ago. I dont think we should fill in all the Grey spaces... but having something filled in and connected to something else would be nice.. and any semblance of a consistent format would be lovely.
I liked the Saltmarsh section, and I am simply pleased they chose to actually treat a GH town as a GH town. Could it have been better? Yes. Could it have satisified you, Sam, with your strong knowledge and affinity for Keoland? I am not so sure. In the GM project, we are specifically staying off such sacred ground for just such reasons.
I liked the magic items. I almost always do, just for new ideas and to trip up my players who think they have seen it all.
So... for the excellent Amazon price of $26.00, including tax and shipping I thought it was an excellent purchase.
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