Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Postcards from the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly
Denizens
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
Canonfire :: View topic - WG12 Vale of the Mage
Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
WG12 Vale of the Mage
Author Message
Adept Greytalker

Joined: Aug 13, 2001
Posts: 460


Send private message
Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:12 pm  
WG12 Vale of the Mage

I've recently been reading through this module again, and, aside from the fact that the author didn't seem to be well-versed in Greyhawk at the time (for instance, referring to the Overking of the Great Kingdom as the "Great King," as well as getting the Mage's first name wrong), I noticed something very peculiar: the type and variety of wildlife in the Vale.

For instance, in a region that one would assume to be temperate (about the same latitude as GH City, Hardby, Verbobonc, etc), the climate is listed as "subtropical." The animal life includes several animals found in subtropical/ tropical regions, many of which would seem more at home in the Amedio or Hepmonaland. The list on page 28 includes elephants, hippos, rhinos, baboons, gorillas, leopards, tigers, and constrictor snakes.

The LGG doesn't seem to acknowledge this discrepancy, so I'm thinking whoever wrote the Valley of the Mage entry thought this was best ignored, as well as some of Rabe's other additions to the Vale, such as the Tree People (humans who took to the trees b/c ground predators were too dangerous, despite the fact that the Valley elves & gnomes do fine on the ground).

The animals could likely be explained as transplants brought to the Vale by the Mage (or possibly Jakar), or perhaps some of them came from the crashed ship from S3 (its location is marked on the Paizo map as "Unoerthly Cave," about 4 hexes south of the Valley). Of course, an in-game explanation could view the informative parts of WG12 as the inaccurate research of a sage.

Thoughts?
Adept Greytalker

Joined: Jul 29, 2006
Posts: 503
From: Dantredun, MN

Send private message
Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:14 pm  

Good topic.

WG12 isn't very well researched, but I like the subtropical setting and I'm inclined to keep it. It's nice to have unusual monsters where adventurers don't expect them and the subtropical critters don't otherwise see a lot of action unless one travels pretty far south.

The 83 Guide describes the Valley as "lush" and the line about "platinum and gems which are said to litter stream beds as pebbles" seems more at home in an subtropical setting than a temperate one. It sounds like the kind of story Northerners make up after seeing an alien, subtropical setting for the first time. Vague reports of "horrible monsters" also indicates exotic critters, maybe magical, but I like subtropical. The encounter tables are inconclusive, but do include cavemen in the mountains and tribesmen in the Vale.

The Vale material in GH Adventures isn't helpful. It describes the Valley entrance as "barren" and has a handful of generic encounter. There is an interesting note in Jaren's description that the Valley was once ruled by the Grand Duke.

FtA describes the Valley as "almost impregnable" and mentions Rabe's treepeople in both the Cyclopedia and the encounter tables. Baboons are also included in the encounter tables.

The LLG also supports WG12, both with the art on p128 and terms like "lush", "warm and fertile." It also states that the southern half of the Valley is "tree-covered." The tree people probably developed their skills after the Valley Elf King departed and the "marauding monsters" started wiping them out. Apparently these monsters are nocturnal (top of 127), which would explain why the infravision-equipped elves and gnomes fared better.
Grandmaster Greytalker

Joined: Nov 07, 2004
Posts: 1846
From: Mt. Smolderac

Send private message
Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:33 pm  

I had always assumed Rabe was going for a lost world feel by putting tropical animals in a temperate location. I think it was intentionally meant to be jarring. But you are right on the other points about poor research, so who knows. We discussed the elephants on Mort's oliphaunt thread on his blog not too long ago.
GreySage

Joined: Aug 03, 2001
Posts: 3316
From: Michigan

Send private message
Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:17 am  

For me, Rick Miller's version of the Valley of the Mage in Oerth Journal #18 is the definitive one. That article basically ignored the tropical climate impled in Jean Rabe's book, though it took other inspiration from it, including the Tree People (though it asserts that the Tree People were inspired to live in trees by a practice started by the valley elves).
Grandmaster Greytalker

Joined: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 1368
From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU

Send private message
Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:15 pm  
Re: WG12 Vale of the Mage

Robbastard wrote:
...For instance, in a region that one would assume to be temperate (about the same latitude as GH City, Hardby, Verbobonc, etc), the climate is listed as "subtropical." The animal life includes several animals found in subtropical/ tropical regions, many of which would seem more at home in the Amedio or Hepmonaland. The list on page 28 includes elephants, hippos, rhinos, baboons, gorillas, leopards, tigers, and constrictor snakes...


-It's sort of a cop out, but

(ahem)

Magic! Laughing
Journeyman Greytalker

Joined: Mar 05, 2007
Posts: 290
From: The Pomarj

Send private message
Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:51 pm  
Re: WG12 Vale of the Mage

jamesdglick wrote:

-It's sort of a cop out, but

(ahem)

Magic! Laughing



And, for those who prefer a more scientific explanation ("scientific" being as relative term for this), There's always volcanic activity. On another note, perhaps the high mountains serve to trap greenhouse gases in the Valley, thus keeping the temperature warmer than it woulds normally be for this latitude.

Or, just disregard the whole damn thing and stock the area with creatures more consistent with the climate and terrain.
Journeyman Greytalker

Joined: Apr 21, 2003
Posts: 200


Send private message
Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:18 am  

Also keep in mind the idea of Micro Climates. This happens in the Himalayas and other remote Mountain valleys of our own world. Remote Valley's that are geographically cut off with enough cloud cover and other factors can have very warm temperatures even though they are at an altitude high enough that those temperatures would be out of the norm for that region. And keeping in mind that according to the original Greyhawk that the weather is heavily magically influenced anyway, you can pretty much have whatever climate you like there.
GreySage

Joined: Oct 06, 2008
Posts: 2788
From: South-Central Pennsylvania

Send private message
Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:54 am  

This is the situation in Grand Junction, CO. (4500 ft elevation)

It is second only to San Fransisco for constant year round temperature. The Grand Mesa -- the largest flat top mountain in the world -- provides protection (nearly 12,000 ft) as do the Bookcliffs (7500 ft) and the Colorado National Monument, (10,000 ft).

The mountains are covered with snow during the winter months, but the valley remains quite nice, with little snow fall.

_________________
Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
Display posts from previous:   
   Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
Page Generation: 0.88 Seconds