I know that the mage spell Flesh to Stone can be Dispelled (if a successful roll is made) since it is a magical effect. Obviously, the reverse of the same spell undoes the magick. However, there are various creatures that can employ unique attack forms in which the victim is rendered lithified, too, namely the following:
1) Beholder: Since this seems to be a spell-like effect, I assume that it can be nullified with a successful Dispel Magic.
2) Basilisk: Since it is a natural effect, is it possible to neutralize with a successful Dispel or not, thus requiring the wizard spell, Stone to Flesh?
3) Cockatrice: I would treat this as the aforementioned reptilian horror as a 'natural' attack mode
4) Medusa: same as both the Basilisk and Cockatrice.
Any others I missed? Probably quite a few. Would a successful Dispel Magic undo the effect on those creatures, too.
I am reluctant to say that Dispel Magic would work since the petrifications described are instantaneous in occurrance (save immediately on occurring) where there is a casting time for the Dispel magic even if cast during the same round. Further, if cast after the effect, there is no "magic" to dispel as the person petrified is stone, wears like normal stone, etc... for purposes a rock.. no radiating magic.
2e Dispel magic would be able to do the work of 6th level Stone to Flesh? humm seems no reason to learn the StF if I can do it with dispel magic?
It could be ruled that the Dispel Magic could temporarily render the innate ability of the creature disrupted, but I don't think it can "undo" the effect if it has already occurred. Although it might temporarily leave the spell effect non-operational since that is a DM call (akin to casting on a bag of holding or ring) if cast specifically on one person that had been petrified. Though even with such a ruling, I would also say that the dispel in such cases wears off leaving the victim stone once again.
My understanding of Dispel Magic is that it can be used to remove permanent magical effects. My main curiosity is if this spell can only be used on the FtS effects that are inherently described as magical in nature (like the Beholder and mage spell) ONLY...or it it could also negate the FtS 'natural' abilities of the cockatrice, medusa, and the like...
I think the pertinent question is, why does the 5th level stone to flesh spell even exist if petrification could be negated by a 3rd level dispel magic spell?
I think therein lies the answer, meaning that petrification effects cannot be dispelled. Petrification is just a more powerful effect, requiring a more powerful "cure". Seeing as the effect is the same, whether its origin is a spell or creature, the "cure" should be the same. This is a permanent transformation, and those are usually very powerful. Take polymorth other for instance. Sure, one can dispel it, but if one doesn't do so in a timely manner the mind of the victim will be gone (requiring a 9th level wish spell to restore!), and polymorph other is only a piddling 4th level spell mind you.
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Glad to see your rule question have not gone away. I would rule that Dispel Magic can dispel recently cast or active spell effects, unless other wise determined by the spell. Unfortunately Flesh to Stone does not elaborate on these specifics.
So you have one of several options.
A. Dispel Magic is an opposed roll versus not only the caster level of the spell cast, but also the difference in power level of the spell. Example: Fagen is turned to stone by the flesh to stone spell. The DM rules the effective caster level is 14 and since fleash to stone is 3 levelss higher then the dispel magic spell is grants a - 3 penalty to the dispelling effect. Hence the modified caster level is 17. This makes lower level spells more likely to be dispelled and higher level spells lesss likely to be dispelled.
One can also rule that in some cases the effective caster level may be beyond the ability of the mage, looking to dispel the effect. This would be an exception to the rule that one always has a chance to dispel or hit something.
B. If the ability clearly states a spell-like effect allow the dispel magic to take effect as listed in the 2e rule set or as example A above or by using the reverse of the spell. If the effect is natural one may rule that the blood of the creature that caused the effect must be used to cast the reversal spell or it will have no effect. Making for a more difficult reversal and interesting rescue mission.
C. Dispel magic will temporarily change the creature back for 1d4 rounds when the duration expires this makes the creature roll two system shock rolls one for being turned back to flesh and another for being turned back to stone. The reversal spell works as listed by 2e rules or as example A above.
D. Dispel magic does not work against natural and spell like effects which exceed 3rd level nor does the reverse of the spell work on natural abilities of certain creature though it does cancel spell-like powers aka beholder eye ray. However, natural affects are permanent and cannot be dispelled or reversed short of a wish.
Each of these are options you can use. Depending on your style of play, though I'm a bigger fan of reversal spells then a straight dispel magic.
Argon! Yes, my friend, I continue to post my rules and gaming mechanics queries for which I am so (in)famous! Please continue to browse, as I no doubt will resurface with others.
I am somewhat caught in the middle between your stance and that taken by Cebrion. On one hand I completely understand how allowing a Stone to Flesh to be Dispelled may undermine the potency of the magical effect, as Cebrion has noted. This would mean that only wizards, who have the reversed spell in their repertoire, could have any chance of assisting an effected victim. There is no chance for clerics to be of aid, even those with Elemental Earth sphere, as I see no listing in any of my many tomes where priests can turn someone to stone or vice versa (though, gruesomely, I guess they could turn a stoned victim into a pile of oozing mud...).
On the other hand, I think that spell-like effects, as noted clearly by the Beholder description, should be under the domain of a successful Dispel Magic though it would be difficult given a Beholder's 'level.' Perhaps "innate" petrification effects, as those noted for a Medusa, Basilisk, and Cockatrice, fall outside this domain, however. As such, I could see where a Dispel Magic would be utterly useless, and a mage's Stone to Flesh spell is the only 'cure.'
As an interesting sidenote, I am under the impression that a victim's spiritual essence must somehow be in limbo, or tied/anchored to the affected "stoned" individual. Otherwise, upon reversing the effect, all you'd get is a corpse!
I appreciate everyone's input, and welcome any more.
As an interesting sidenote, I am under the impression that a victim's spiritual essence must somehow be in limbo, or tied/anchored to the affected "stoned" individual. Otherwise, upon reversing the effect, all you'd get is a corpse!
-Lanthorn
Agreed, and funny had this exact question come about last week, I ruled it similar to "magic jar" the soul is trapped and unaware of the passage of time. It can, however, strike out at passers by just as in the spell. (I set the range as 10'/lvl) The fundamental difference being the garden statuary is the container instead of a gem. It certainly gives interesting possibilities for future "trap applications".
IMOC a ranger was petrified by some cockatrice. later (much later) to be found by an NPC that reversed the spell via StF and to warn him on her departure that she wont always be available to help him from his blunders. The ranger is now faced with the quandary of how much time has really past.. wont know till he gets to a town or other point of reference.
I also agree, as the person is returned to life if the effect is reversed.
Also, I wouldn't differentiate between being turned to stone from a spell or from a creature. These are not natural effects at all, but effects from either a spell or magical creatures that, due to them literally being magical in the first place, are able to create spell-like effects. Either dispel magic works on them all, or it doesn't work on any of them (my opinion is that it doesn't work on any of them).
Somebody really needs to do a Dragon Magazine "Sage Advice" Index...and of course, somebody already has! Bless all of the crazy (A)D&D psycho-fanatics out there, whatever game edition(s) they are dedicated to, for their due diligence.
But, how long will that link keep Lanthorn busy for? Tune in next time, AD&Ders! _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
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