Canonfire! Forums-viewtopic-Planar Shifting

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:27 pm Planar Shifting

Hello Friends of the Prime Material (M-S may be from some alternate realm),

I've got a few points that I need clarified (hold the gasp) about the spell, Plane Shift:

I understand that a cleric (with access to Astral Sphere) must have a tuning fork of some material (precious or otherwise, but I imagine it must have some relevance to the Plane of interest) in order to shift to the desired Plane. I read this to mean that the cleric must have a separate and uniquely crafted tuning fork for each different Plane of existence. Thusly, Plane Shifting to the Beastlands requires a different tuning fork than, for instance, Plane Shifting to the Elemental Plane of Fire.

Secondly, and I am looking high and low for a concrete (and referenced) answer in the Manual of the Planes on this...but does a successful Dispel Magic hurl the recipients of this spell back to their plane of origin (ex: Prime Material)? I think so, as I know it mentions this does happen if you Plane Shift to the Ethereal Plane. But perhaps I am extrapolating incorrectly.

HELP, travels of space and time! Who among you reveres, or is a cleric of Celestian?! Razz

-Lanthorn, Planely Puzzled Wink

Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:00 pm

Your interpretation of the need for separate tuning forks for each plane traveled to may be reasonable, depending upon how difficult you want the use of such a spell to be. However, I think it is an interpretation that can't be proven the correct one. In other words, the wording of the spell description may be interpreted that way, but it can also be taken literally to mean that there is only a single tuning fork needed which can be used for any plane. As DM, it's up to you. Wink

With respect to your Dispel Magic question, I think not. The point of the ethereal plane is that a creature not native to that plane is only partially there. They exist both in the ethereal and the prime material at the same time, though they are invisible on the prime when traveling on the ethereal. When a creature travels to another plane, however, they are fully there physically. Thus, magic may have taken them to that plane, but once they are there, the magic that got them there is ended (barring some special spell that specifically states differently for its, individual effects). Thus, casting Dispel Magic on a PC on the Elemental Plane of Fire would do no more to him than casting the same spell on him on the Prime Material Plane.

SirXaris

Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:27 am

You are going to need to look at the "Magic" section for each group of planes in the 1E MotP for your answer. If dispel magic is not dealt with in any particular section in this regard, then it has no effect. Characters/whatever would have to resort to other spells, like banishment, (un) holy word, and similar to send characters/critters back to their home planes.
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Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:21 am

Ceb and SX, regarding the Dispel Magic question, I can comply with your reasoning. I will continue perusing Manual of the Planes on this one.

Ceb, what is your perspective about a different tuning fork for each different Plane to be traveled?

SX, the reason I say a different fork for each Plane is b/c a tuning fork, composed of a singular type of material, resonates at a specific frequency. For instance, a 300 Hz fork can ONLY resonate at THAT particular frequency, and none other. Striking it harder, striking it with less force has NO bearing. It will ALWAYS resonate at 300 Hz. Thusly, I am fairly certain that a cleric needs a different fork for each different Plane to be reached.

-Lanthorn

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:07 am

I agree with your reasoning, Lanthorn. I like to apply real life science to magic in a fantasy setting to the extent reasonably possible. I'm also thinking of divining rods used to find water under the ground. If I recall correctly, different types of wood would work better than others. Was it a Willow branch that was supposed to work best?

SirXaris

Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:50 am

I believe you are correct about willow branches, but not with 100% surety. Consult your local 'water witch' about this. Smile

-Lanthorn

Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:25 pm

So I looked up in Manual of the Planes and it seems that you guys are right, and that the (Border) Ethereal may be the only exception. A successful Disple Magic will not nullify the effects of a Plane Shift except when it pertains to entering the (Border) Ethereal. However, I would imagine it would nullify the effects of an Astral spell.

So, if a Plane Shift is needed to remove oneself FROM the Prime Material, then it stands to reason that it takes a Plane Shift to return back TO the Prime Material! And, in my line of reasoning, that takes a completely DIFFERENT tuning fork! Shocked

Better not lose it! Cry

That sounds like an adventure unto itself... Wink

-Lanthorn

Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:12 pm

Yes, the border ethereal is the exception so far as dispel magic is concerned, due to the unique Prime/Ethereal connection (I just wanted you to look it up yourself). Happy

And yes, you need a plane shift spell to return home too. Getting any of the tuning forks can be a task, even an adventure, in itself (see below).

I can't believe I am actually having to answer this particular question, but here we go...

The plane shift spell very explicitly states that a different tuning fork, made of a different material, is needed for each plane. How is this unclear? It is right there in the spell description. The tuning forks don't get used up, so a cleric can have a key ring full of different tuning forks keyed to different planes that they can use as they wish.

"Here's my platinum tuning fork forged by an honest man for the Seven Heavens, and my rusted iron tuning fork quenched in the blood of an innocent for Gehenna, and my brass tuning fork forged by a fire elemental for the Plane of Fire..."

You're killing me, Smalls. (Sand Lot ref. Wink

)
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Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:34 pm

Ceb, you're completely right...my bad, totally! But, thanks for the tuning fork ideas! Maybe that is "next?" Ideas of tuning forks for each of the different Planes!!! Idea

Again, I was remiss in not reviewing the spell description, and apologize for wasting your time on that one. Confused

-Lanthorn, Penitent

Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:12 pm

Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:14 pm

I think Cebrion had some good examples. Perhaps a wishbone of a predatory animal to enter the Beastlands. Maybe a Satyr horn or the hair of a mad man to enter Limbo. A judges gavel for Nirvana. Many things can help unlock these planes so I would say a planar key is used to tune to the plane.

Later

Argon

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:29 am

WRT tuning forks and the materials that they're crafted from for each plane, there's a good article from Dragon #120 you may want to look at for inspiration: "Planar forks" in the column "Plane Speaking" and written by Jeff Grubb.
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:21 am

BlueWitch and Grodog, awesome referencing! Sadly, not sure if I have access to those materials, but will sift and sort through my stack of old magazines in the shed, and ask my fellow player/DM if he has any of them. Let's hope that I have them!!! Otherwise, you are killing me with anticipation and envy. Confused

-Lanthorn the Forkless Cry

Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:17 pm

Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:27 pm

Mystic plunges the dagger, then turns it... Cry

-Lanthorn, 'Plane'ly in Pain

Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:19 pm

See what happens when you refuse to let outsiders in Lanthorn.

You can make up your own if you don't have access to those issues. Besides with your background in science I'm sure you can see a connection using certain minerals and elements found on Oerth.

Later

Argon

Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:49 am

...but I do play well with others!

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:56 pm

[quote="Lanthorn"] Cry

...but I do play well with others![/quote

Only if its second edition otherwise by Daoud, beware! Surprised

The light turns slightly grey, pun intended. Laughing

Later

Argon

Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:26 am

Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:21 am

WOW, we stumped Mystic!!!

A free LEVEL, on the House, for everyone!!! Mystic, your infernal quasit (NOT me!) ... or is it an imp? ... disintegrates, and you lose FOUR levels! Evil Grin

Check out The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth! There's information about him, and his "wondrous lanthorn" therein...

-Lanthorn, Bringer of Knowledge and Light Happy

(No, seriously, NOT a Pholtite!)

Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:31 pm

Daoud's Wondrous Lanthorn!

Hey even a Mystic Scholar can be stumped once in a while. I think you need to clean that crystal ball more often, or maybe the windex did not dry in time. Wink

I think Lanthorn has been away from Daoud for to long as he's floating towards the one true light! Shocked

I hear a Theocrat resides in Vegas so if Lanthorn heads there we will know the truth. Razz

Later

Argon

Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:10 am

Ah! But you see, I said I had search the WIKIs . . . no Douad. Razz

He exist only in a module that I haven't played. So . . . no loss. Sorry. Wink

If he's in a module, then someone should get him logged into the Wikis . . . Canonfire! and D&D. I couldn't find him.

Tsk! To leave sooo important a personage out of the Wikis! Unless, of course, those who maintain the Wikis think, maybe, he's not that important a personage. Shocked

Of course, he could be in WotCs Wiki, but then, I don't "do" Wotc. Razz

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Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/

Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:18 pm

Yeah, that crystal ball has bad reception. Shocked

http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Daoud

Or maybe you need to memorize and cast this spell Clairaudience/Clairvoyance. Razz

Later

Argon

Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:48 am

Doh! Seems in my haste I mistyped the name! Embarassed

Damn it to hell! Evil

Thanks for the clarification, Argon. My bad!

*Mystic throws the second rate crystal ball he bought from Lanthorn into the garbage!*

Mwahahahahahahahahahaha!
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Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/

Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:02 am

Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:10 pm

Are you telling me that you didn't notice the crack in that Crystal Ball you sold me last year? Confused

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Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/

Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:36 pm

Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:42 pm

Argon must be working on commission. Nice pitch. Smile

Do people get a free battleaxe upon buying their 10th crystal ball? Wink

-Lanthorn

Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:45 pm

I use the battleaxe to slash prices (Like the Old Crazy Eddies store) my prices are insane! Happy

Later

Argon